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What keeps you from flying aerobatics? Really?

I fly an aerobatic RV and don't fly aerobatics because... (check all that apply)

  • I do fly aerobatics but not interested in competition.

    Votes: 91 51.1%
  • I'm worried about breaking my airplane.

    Votes: 25 14.0%
  • I can't afford equipping for aerobatics.

    Votes: 7 3.9%
  • I'm too old for this type of flying.

    Votes: 17 9.6%
  • I can't find someone to teach me aerobatics.

    Votes: 27 15.2%
  • Aerobatics just scare me.

    Votes: 16 9.0%
  • My wife or others discourage this activity.

    Votes: 9 5.1%
  • I have a medical condition that precludes this activity.

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • I just don't like having fun.

    Votes: 5 2.8%
  • I haven't really thought about it. Tell me more.

    Votes: 13 7.3%

  • Total voters
    178
  • Poll closed .
That's a giant stretch there sunshine. It was clearly a joke, and as a former RV pilot, I've been a huge advocate for RV competition/precision acro (on VAF and in general) for many years and have attempted to dispel the continual myths and misconceptions about the sport and these airplanes, so you really don't need to try to lecture me about IAC's image...especially when your posts about IAC here have largely been describing your isolated perception of IACers as being a bunch of childish jerks. That sure as heck is not the case in general. In my time in the sport all up and down the eastern US, my experience has been exactly the opposite.

Not lecturing, and I think I acknowledged it was "just a joke" with my tongue-in-cheek verbage. I'm just pointing out how a slight tweak of wording might help improve IAC's recruitment efforts. It's worth what you paid for it, of course.
 
Nothing keeps me from flying aerobatics in my RV-8. I so so just about every time I fly unless it's a cross country.

I have about 60 hours aerobatic training and experience; trained in a Super Decathlon, soloed that plus a Citabria and then my RV-8. Loops, rolls, Cuban 8's, reverse Cubans, lots of spins. In fact I got spin training before even getting my PPL.

I also have about 25 hours formation training and experience. I have upset/unusual attitude training as well

I have a chute and wear it.

I have a helmet and wear it.

But I get the sense that the poll is more asking why people don't compete. That's an entirely different issue from whether or not people fly acro.

Out of curiosity, do you wear your helmet and chute each flight, or just when you know you'll fly acro?

Do you fly acro with a student / pax?
 
Out of curiosity, do you wear your helmet and chute each flight, or just when you know you'll fly acro?

Do you fly acro with a student / pax?

I wear the chute all the time. Helmet only when I'm doing acro.

I will occasionally fly acro with a pax - if I can get them a chute.
 
What kind of chutes do you like for you and pax. Does Softie make a good product for RV dimensions?

I have a Mini Softie with the 16" wide container and I like it. It does push me forward about an inch more than the back pad on my seat so I remove the backpad when using the chute. The wider container reduces the thickness by about a quarter inch.

For the pax...whatever chute I can find so long as it has been repacked recently enough.
 
That's too bad Ron. If I were on the East coast, I would have definitely joined you!

As for your question of why not more RV pilots are involved in competition, here's my take on it. It's a pretty big time and money commitment (or at least it can be, depending on how involved you want to get and how quick you want to improve).

I like practicing on my own and going to practice days, but the commitment to go to contests can be very difficult. You basically have to plan on taking 4 days off (Thursday through Sunday). Most people have Saturdays and Sundays off anyway, but I work Saturdays so it's hard. That's the time part and then the money for contest, hotel, food, gas, etc. can be pretty significant.

However, the fun and feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment and making new friends and associating with other like-minded pilots make it worth it.

The other thing I found as a relatively new guy in the sport is that getting started can be difficult if you don't find the right people to help you out. Joining a supportive chapter makes a BIG difference!

What I really enjoy about aerobatics in general is the tremendous feeling of freedom of expression and learning and trying to master new maneuvers. What I like about competition aerobatics is that it teaches you to fly these figures with precision.
 
Hi Ron,

I want to build my RV8 for aerobatic competition. Is there any modification I should do to the RV8 canopy in order to comply with the IAC regarding canopy ejection? Basically, can I keep the stock sliding canopy as is?

Thanks.

Phat,

The only modification I made was to put quick release pins in the forward canopy rollers so I can push the canopy up after sliding it back just an inch or two. During normal flight air loads make it impossible to slide the canopy back far enough to egress. Of course that may not be a problem in an out-of-control situation.



I wrote an article for Sport Aviation in the August 2016 issue which discusses equipping your RV for aerobatics. You can find it on the EAA web site magazine archives.
 
I am with Paul Dye. It?s a time thing. I ?softly? quit formation flying after our 50 ship record in Phoenix due to the time it takes to keep proficient. I dedicated myself, got carded, and flew at a high level for over four years. I enjoyed the challenge and friendships, many of which are still and forever intact, but I couldn?t maintain the passion.
I am not a ?dip the toe? in kind of person. I flew hard aerobatics in the Bucker, but never found a mentor or connection to the IAC or its activities. Today, its hard enough just to make an occasional fly in breakfast or show. At this point in my life, retired and busy with family, friends, business ventures, maintaining my two airplanes, there just isn?t room in my life.
Keep up the good work Ron. You have my respect and I hope you can foster more contributions from the RV community. You are a tremendous ambassador.
 
I am with Paul Dye. It?s a time thing. I ?softly? quit formation flying after our 50 ship record in Phoenix due to the time it takes to keep proficient. I dedicated myself, got carded, and flew at a high level for over four years. I enjoyed the challenge and friendships, many of which are still and forever intact, but I couldn?t maintain the passion.
I am not a ?dip the toe? in kind of person. I flew hard aerobatics in the Bucker, but never found a mentor or connection to the IAC or its activities. Today, its hard enough just to make an occasional fly in breakfast or show. At this point in my life, retired and busy with family, friends, business ventures, maintaining my two airplanes, there just isn?t room in my life.
Keep up the good work Ron. You have my respect and I hope you can foster more contributions from the RV community. You are a tremendous ambassador.

Jon,
I get it. You, Paul and I suffer from the same ailment: too many passions and not enough time. I'm sure there are many on this forum with the same problem. I started flying RC planes when I was eleven. My transmitter was a big box full of vacuum tubes and batteries that sat on the ground with a loooong antenna, a chord from that big box ended with a button. One push for right rudder two pushes for left rudder! After doing that for 62 years I finally decided to donate all my RC planes, radios and gear to the local RC flying club. They came with a big trailer and hauled it all off last weekend. Some young RC pilot is going to have a field day! I let my FFI lead card expire a couple of years ago as well as my air show SAC card. In retirement my days are now full of IAC aerobatic competition and the passion continues. Wish I knew what passion will be next. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the kind words.
 
[/QUOTE]

Great picture doing what you love, Ron.

Certainly OK to enjoy it if others do not.

For me, definitely too old.
My box does not include inverted flight or high G loads.

Different strokes for different folks. :)

dd
 
Aerobatics

I would love to. I drove Lemons and Champ for 5 years and miss the Zen. It's that mental state when your no longer the driver but instead wearing the car. So much fun. I would love to get there in an airplane and I think Aerobatics would make me a better pilot.
It will have to wait. I have a more important project. Gotta finish my 7a! :D
 
Ah, the good old days. Single channel, rubber band-powered escapement RC flying! Very advanced at the time, compared to control-line and free-flight models.

A lot of folks are not aware that we had radio control technology in target drones in WWII. I have a 1942 Righter twin cylinder, twin counter rotating propeller, motor that was used on such a drone. By the time they where in production, fighters where too fast and the drones proved pretty useless.
Mine appears to have never been flown as it sits in its original patina. Those that flew, where not usable after....

Sorry for the thread drift. Interesting history though.... Norma Jean (Marylin Monroe) worked for this company as a teenager before she was "discovered". She may have held my drone motor! I will have to dust it for prints!

I don't think these drones where capable of aerobatic flight ops..... ;)
 
Let's finish this.

I think I hit a nerve! After 113 posts and over 5000 views in just two days I think we have run the course. I have learned a lot about all of you and hopefully many of you have learned a bit about competition aerobatics. The be sure, I'd like to address the responses to the poll and offer further reading for anyone wanting more.



1. I am thrilled to see that over 51% of you do fly aerobatics. I'm convinced that those who explore the outer reaches of the flight envelope will be less likely to inadvertently find themselves outside of that envelope. And if they do stray from the envelope those with aerobatic training are more likely to possess the skills to get back in the envelope thus avoiding bent metal and other disagreeable consequences.

2. For those 15% of you worried about breaking your airplane I can assure you that the RV is very robust. I'm as hard as anyone on the RV and after 2200 hours of mostly air show aerobatics and competition aerobatics, hundreds of flights where loads exceed 5.5 Gs and speeds right up to Vne I can assure you that this is one tough cookie! Having said that, I remind you that there are published limitations on the RV and you would be wise to adhere to those limits.

3. For the few (3%) of you who can't afford to equip your planes for aerobatics; if you have the will but not the bucks you can ease into it. I equipped my RV for aerobatics over several years. Take a look at the articles and webinar links at the end of this post and see what you can afford now and save for more as you go.

4. For the 10% who think you are too old. I direct your attention to Bill McLean who is 78 and regularly flies his RV-4 at the Intermediate level of IAC competition. He placed 2nd in a field of 17 at the 2016 US National Aerobatic Championships. I am aware that medical issues are more likely to be a factor as we age but age itself is not a limiting factor.

5. Twelve percent can't find someone to teach them aerobatics. You don't have to commit to aerobatic competition to join you local IAC chapter and avail yourself of the free coaching and instruction. Only 11% of IAC members actively compete. The rest enjoy casual aerobatics, volunteering or just hobnobbing with like minded folks.

6. For the 10% that are just afraid of aerobatics I hope that's not because you had a bad experience with someone who pushed you too far, too fast. There are kind instructors and mentors out there who will go at your pace and are mindful of your fears. I hope you give it another try.

7. Almost 5% don't participate because someone else is discouraging them. I understand that people are afraid of the unknown. Maybe you can share your new-found knowledge of aerobatics with this person, take them along to a competition or training day. Once they become familiar with aerobatics and the professional approach that emphasizes safety and step-by-step instruction maybe they will be more encouraging.

8. For the two percent who have medical conditions precluding aerobatics I hope you are able to surmount your problems. I, too have a worsening medical condition that will eventually take me out of the aerobatic box. I hope to continue as a judge and instructor just to stay involved. For now I'm in it as long as the body allows.

9. For the two percent that just don't like having fun, I hope you were kidding because I was kidding when I wrote that poll option. :D

10. For the 7% who want to know more, I hope this thread has taught you a thing or two. For more information I offer the following additional information.



The IAC web site is a vast store of information. Much of the information is only available to members but you can join HERE.I hope you do.

I recently conducted an IAC Webinar on RV Aerobatics which is loaded with information specific to RVs.

Finally, there is a great article in the August 2016 issue of Sport Aviation, written by Dick VanGrunsven. Immediately following Dick's article is one I wrote on Equipping your RV for Aerobatics.

I'll leave this thread open in case there are more questions or issues you would like to discuss.
 
Okay, I haven't seen this discussed. Am I the only one who is a bit concerned about mid-airs? I live in the crowded SFO area. I frequently see areas 50 nm away from SFO NOTAMed for aerobatic activity, and just as frequently see VFR aircraft completely oblivious cruising right thru them. Even when I demo spins for students, I try hard to scan around and below for traffic, even though the whole maneuver will only take seconds (3 turns). If I was doing a 3 minute routine, I'd be really concerned. Now, I fully appreciate that statistically the odds are low (in fact, I don't recall ever hearing of such a mid-air), but I'd worry anyway. Part of the reason I don't have an aerobatic-capable airplane.
 
I practice just outside our DFW bravo, and have had more than one change of plans on the backside of a Cuban.

Getting Garmin panel now. Really looking forward to ADSB and traffic.

Radio calls in the area did't always seem to help with CTAF congestion.
 
Okay, I haven't seen this discussed. Am I the only one who is a bit concerned about mid-airs? I live in the crowded SFO area. I frequently see areas 50 nm away from SFO NOTAMed for aerobatic activity, and just as frequently see VFR aircraft completely oblivious cruising right thru them. Even when I demo spins for students, I try hard to scan around and below for traffic, even though the whole maneuver will only take seconds (3 turns). If I was doing a 3 minute routine, I'd be really concerned. Now, I fully appreciate that statistically the odds are low (in fact, I don't recall ever hearing of such a mid-air), but I'd worry anyway. Part of the reason I don't have an aerobatic-capable airplane.

Bob,
At contests and sanctioned practice days we always have an observer on the ground with a radio tuned to CTAF to advise incoming and departing aircraft of the aerobatic activity in the airport area and a NOTAM should be published as well. You and I know that few pilots read NOTAMS and there are always people flying over airfields without making an advisory call. It sure helps to have an observer on the ground but occasionally one gets missed. We do what we can.
 
....Some will argue that if you are above the aerobatic weight limitation but below the normal max gross weight you could limit aerobatics to 4 Gs and still be safe. I disagree. A very experienced acro pilot may be able to do that, but I have seen several who are new to aerobatics freeze in the middle of an aileron roll and pull right into a split-S with a resultant high G pull-out. Stay within the published weight and CG limits and practice with enough altitude to make a successful recovery from a botched figure. PERIOD!...

Thank you ! This is how I feel but my transition CFI just told me yesterday something about how much does 4g times 1700lbs weigh versus 6g times 1600lbs to justify doing acro over the 1600lbs limit.

I've done plenty of it in the past but don't want to do any in my RV-8 until I can get a local RV-8 expert to teach me in my plane.
 
Thank you ! This is how I feel but my transition CFI just told me yesterday something about how much does 4g times 1700lbs weigh versus 6g times 1600lbs to justify doing acro over the 1600lbs limit.

I've done plenty of it in the past but don't want to do any in my RV-8 until I can get a local RV-8 expert to teach me in my plane.

Do you have the useful load for you, your instructor, chutes, and gas to train under the acro weight limit?


Sidenote: I liked Vac's RV transition training handbook. Good notes in there for basic acro maneuvers, and description of rolling G.
 
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Just a clarifying note. The aerobatic GW for the RV-7 is 1600 lbs.

The aerobatic GW for the RV-8 with the Dash-One wing is 1600 lbs.

The aerobatic GW for the RV-8 with the non-Dash-One wing is 1550 lbs.

What year did they change the wing in the -8?
 
So what I'm saying is:

If your empty weight is 1,200 and your max acro gross is 1600, can you get you, your instructor, gas and chutes to the acro area and back with fuel reserves within 400 lbs? Lets say both pilots are 160. Add 30 for chutes and your already up to 350lbs. That leaves 50lbs (8 gal usable) for gas to train and get home with reserves.

The answer for my 6 is... not possible. I would love to have received acro training in the 6 but my weight margins won't allow it. So I had to train in Super D and Pitts than try and transition myself in my plane.

I feel this is one of the biggest barriers to more people not receiving acro training in their RV. I also believe people will continue to hurt themselves and their plane by trying to teach themselves because many RVs simply cant stay with in the acro weight and balance with an instructor on board.

As alluded to earlier, going flying and prebriefing a max G of 4 may be more plausible option for more useful load but I understand why many are against the idea. RV G limits may not be linear and I'm not aware of any data to develop our own L/D curve to state G limits between max acro weight and max gross weight.

Another bummer is chutes. I watched the Fly Chops episode of him flying loops at Vans without chutes and in the comments he stated they were exempt because under the FARs they were both "crew members". Thinking I had my out, but wanted to clarify, I called AOPA attorneys and my FSDO here in DFW with that question. They both agreed. If I'm going to teach acro in my RV than we both need chutes. More money and weight. Softie is advertising their mini for 2,500 bucks and 15 lbs each.

I really wish the weights and rules were different. There are thousands or RVs flying and most arn't safe or legal to receive acro training in despite being great flyers solo.
 
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So I had to train in Super D and Pitts then try and transition myself in my plane.

You make it sound like that's a bad option when it's really a good option. RV pilots new to acro seem to think they really need to do acro training in an RV. You really don't. Acro is acro and the basic skills are perfectly transferable to any airplane.
 
I wish everyone would get some time in a Super D and a Pitts. The reality is there are less and less places to receive the training and its again a cost issue.

I believe there are alot of RV pilots out there with the desire to learn and the possessor of keys to a plane that will do some nice acro, but as we have all read....a simple roll turn into a split S and sometimes pulls the wing off. Another fatality, black mark on EAB safety stats, rise in insurance rates, and so on.

I thought I read in Kitplanes that last year more EAB entered the registry than certified airplanes. We all know that RVs are the most represented and are capable of fun and (in the wrong hands) dangerous maneuvers. It's too bad training to fully and safly enjoy what the RV is capable of has so many hurdles.

The best solution is to probably make a vacation to an acro school like Koonts and learn all you can for when you get home and back in your own RV. Who knows, maybe the next IAC medalist is reading this thread.
 
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I watched the Fly Chops episode of him flying loops at Vans without chutes and in the comments he stated they were exempt because under the FARs they were both "crew members".
I saw that video and cringed a bit. Ehh, nice try, but yep, Flight Chops is wrong. If you?re solo, no chute needed. But I believe the FAA wording for chutes being needed is 2 or more occupants, not crew members.
 
If Vans got their FSDO to buy off on that interperatration of "crew members" becasue they are doing an aircraft check out...good on um.

DFW FSDO said "no dice" on teaching acro with no chutes. But on a side note they said I could do all the unusual attitudes I wanted...just no acro sequences. My POI bud said it best: "here at the FAA we make policy, not sense".
 
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DFW FSDO said "no dice" on teaching acro with no chutes. But on a side note they said I could do all the unusual attitudes I wanted...just no acro sequences. My POI bud said it best: "here at the FAA we make policy, not sense".

Actually, there is some sense. The FARs give cfi?s a blanket exemption from the ?chute rules when they are teaching ?any maneuver required for (any) rating?. So unusual attitudes (required for instrument) or spins (required for cfi), no chutes required if you?re a cfi.
 
Thank you ! This is how I feel but my transition CFI just told me yesterday something about how much does 4g times 1700lbs weigh versus 6g times 1600lbs to justify doing acro over the 1600lbs limit.

I've done plenty of it in the past but don't want to do any in my RV-8 until I can get a local RV-8 expert to teach me in my plane.

I'm not an aeronautical engineer so I won't presume to be able to explain the reasoning behind the limitations that Van has published. I DO know enough to respect the published limitations.

One thing we have not discussed is asymmetrical or rolling Gs. This comes into play when we apply aileron inputs while under high G loads. The wing with the aileron down will experience more lift and thus more Gs than the wing with the aileron up. To my knowledge, Van has not published asymmetrical load limits for the RV so I might assume that the published symmetrical G limits are conservative enough to take asymmetrical loading into account. I'm not qualified to determine if asymmetrical loads are within structural limits should I change symmetrical G limits based upon a different maximum G. Are you?

Van has published maneuvering speeds (Va) for the aerobatic models and I must assume that those speeds are valid for an aircraft loaded to the maximum aerobatic weight. Go beyond the published maximum weight and you do so with the knowledge that the published Va is no longer valid. I'm not qualified to determine what that new figure might be. Are you?

As stated before on this thread: Aerobatic training in aircraft other than your RV is recommended. The basic spin and unusual attitude recovery techniques readily transfer to the RV.
 
Actually, there is some sense. The FARs give cfi?s a blanket exemption from the ?chute rules when they are teaching ?any maneuver required for (any) rating?. So unusual attitudes (required for instrument) or spins (required for cfi), no chutes required if you?re a cfi.

FYI, no certificate or rating is required for aerobatics.
 
Actually, there is some sense. The FARs give cfi’s a blanket exemption from the ‘chute rules when they are teaching ‘any maneuver required for (any) rating’. So unusual attitudes (required for instrument) or spins (required for cfi), no chutes required if you’re a cfi.

I get that. The FSDO guy took it a step further and reasoned with me that because everyone needs a Flight Review. I can teach any "unusual attitude" and consider that as part of the students flight review training.

Side note: I have had customers tell me on Flight Reviews about what ever "fly by" or acro with a buddy or what ever. Maybe ADSB will further discourage impromptu acro between buddies now that flight paths will be recorded.

Sorry for all the thread drift. Long story short I hope lots more RV people get involved with the IAC.
 
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Van has published maneuvering speeds (Va) for the aerobatic models and I must assume that those speeds are valid for an aircraft loaded to the maximum aerobatic weight. Go beyond the published maximum weight and you do so with the knowledge that the published Va is no longer valid. I'm not qualified to determine what that new figure might be. Are you?

Well, yes. It's pretty easy to compute a new Va for a different weight, since it's just a stall speed. You just need to know the current aircraft weight, applicable load factor for that weight, maximum gross weight, and stall speed of said aircraft at maximum gross.
 
yesterday a fellow builder stopped by to see how i was progressing and i was honored by a visit from his friend john. john is 95 and was a p-38 pilot in the pacific. john said ''i always loved to fly aerobatics''!
 
Ron,

This past weekend I was invited by a friend to go with him to attend the Snowbird Classic IAC competition at Marion County Airport, FL (X35). It was a very well organized event and a super friendly group of pilots. My friend Jim has owned his Skybolt for about six years and has finally rustled up the interest to explore aerobatics and made contact with one of the IAC instructors (Renee, owns a Pitts Special out of Miami) for training.

One interesting comment made by Renee was that as an IAC instructor she cannot charge for instruction. If this is correct then what a great incentive to enter the sport!

With respect to your poll, Jim's greatest concerns are learning spins and damaging the aircraft.

There was one RV-4 in the competition. I didn't get to meet the pilot but he flew a beautiful routine. One interesting aerodynamic device attached to the wingtips was a fence (???) that extended well beyond the trailing edge of the ailerons.

They were a great group of pilots, friendly, welcoming, and great ambassadors for the sport.
 
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fun at Snow Bird Classic

Tom,
Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you, but you saw how well the events are organized and the number of flights all day long. I consider the contests the best vacations I've ever had with the opportunity to mingle with the best pilots and friends ever. Have to admit, once you start, it's a good addiction. Ron and Jerry were out in Texas spreading the RV acro joy, AND HAVING FUN.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider (with fences);)
Lower Alabama
 
9. For the two percent that just don't like having fun, I hope you were kidding because I was kidding when I wrote that poll option. :D

According to your definitions, you can add me to the list of pilots who don't like having fun. I have done aerobatic training, and passed checkrides where aerobatics were a required skill. I have trained to a required level of proficiency so that I could perform maneuvers consistently and safely.

However, I just don't enjoy it. It's not fear, expense, medical, age or any other reason you listed as a potential voting choice. I know you probably can't fathom it, but there are people who just don't enjoy aerobatics. It doesn't detract from you enjoying it, but it's not my cup of tea.
 
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According to your definitions, you can add me to the list of pilots who don't like having fun. I have done aerobatic training, and passed checkrides where aerobatics were a skill required. I have trained to a required level of proficiency so that I could perform maneuvers consistently and safely.

However, I just don't enjoy it. It's not fear, expense, medical, age or any other reason you listed as a potential voting choice. I know you probably can't fathom it, but there are people who just don't enjoy aerobatics. It doesn't detract from you enjoying it, but it's not my cup of tea.

Out of curiosity, was your background in the military? Just curious because there are some guys at my airport who enjoy the fun and practice of RV acro but not the being judged / competition or "checked". Just some fun maneuvers once in a while to exercise the ability of the pilot and airplane. Nobody judging, just having fun. I enjoy the practice to be my best, but I'm not sure if I'd like the checking / competition component.
 
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Tom,
Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you, but you saw how well the events are organized and the number of flights all day long. I consider the contests the best vacations I've ever had with the opportunity to mingle with the best pilots and friends ever. Have to admit, once you start, it's a good addiction. Ron and Jerry were out in Texas spreading the RV acro joy, AND HAVING FUN.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider (with fences);)
Lower Alabama

What were those things (fences???). Maybe hard-points for JATO bottles?:)

Tom
 
Out of curiosity, was your background in the military? Just curious because there are some guys at my airport who enjoy the fun and practice of RV acro but not the being judged / competition or "checked". Just some fun maneuvers once in a while to exercise the ability of the pilot and airplane. Nobody judging, just having fun. I enjoy the practice to be my best, but I'm not sure if I'd like the checking / competition component.

I have a military background, but the checkride I was referring to was in a T-6 Texan outside of the military. I didn't mind the pressure of the acro portion of the checkride more or less than any other portion of the ride.

My RV-8 will not have inverted oil or flop tubes. I hope to never experience another negative G as long as I live!
 
upside down

Some people can enjoy being upside down temporarily at 1 G. It stretches the back and feels good to me. That's all you're going to feel flying Primary and Sportsman.:p The only negative thing I've found with being upside down is occasionally getting snot in the eyes.:D
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL
 
I plan on getting some aerobatic training this spring. I?ve tried a few aileron rolls at 5000 agl - none very well. In fact the last one ended up a split S - when inverted the nose started to drop and instinct told me to pull - wrong! Pulled 3 1/2 g in recovery. This seems like a fun maneuver if you planned on it.

I?m 68 yrs old in good health with 100 hr in my RV8 and would like to do some gentleman aerobatics safely. I?m not interested in competition at this stage. Local CFI has no RV experience but instructs in a Grob. Would this relate to an a RV?

Also - this is probably a topic for another thread and I?ll be doing some research on it but does anyone have recommend maneuver entry speeds for a beginner?
 
Also - this is probably a topic for another thread and I?ll be doing some research on it but does anyone have recommend maneuver entry speeds for a beginner?

First of all, Vans publishes info on this, and secondly after you get training you will see that exact entry speeds are not very important. I'm glad you recognize the value in training. The accidental split S you described is the cliche for why training is a good idea. Glad it didn't end badly for you. The positive G aileron roll is literally the easiest maneuver you can in an RV...as you long as you know just enough about how not to screw it up and do what you did. Enjoy the learning process.
 
I?m 68 yrs old in good health with 100 hr in my RV8 and would like to do some gentleman aerobatics safely. I?m not interested in competition at this stage. Local CFI has no RV experience but instructs in a Grob. Would this relate to an a RV?

I hope you are talking about the Grob G-120 and not their glider. I think the G-120 would be a great training platform (+6, -4 Gs) if your instructor is well-versed in aerobatics. Basic spin and unusual attitude training in the G-120 should transfer to your RV quite well.
 
I have been trying. Need some camaraderie or such for help to get more involved. I don't have a plane right now. Building and RV-8! Trying to get it flying this year. I will try to reach out to you and see how to get involved. I want to get into this. Just don't know how or who to reach out too.
 
I have been trying. Need some camaraderie or such for help to get more involved. I don't have a plane right now. Building and RV-8! Trying to get it flying this year. I will try to reach out to you and see how to get involved. I want to get into this. Just don't know how or who to reach out too.



IAC 27
Collierville, TN
President: Michael Tipton
Contact: 573-922-9600 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every 1st Saturday 9:00 AM
Location: DeWitt Spain Airport-CAF Hangar
2787 N 2nd Street
Memphis, TN 38127


IAC 3
Atlanta, GA
President: Thomas Hartvigsen
Contact: 931-962-0811 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every 3rd Saturday TBA
Location: Contact President
115 Airport Road, Box 2
Newnan GA 30263

Either chapter may have practice days at an airport nearer to you. Feel free to PM me if there are specific questions you have.
 
I hope you are talking about the Grob G-120 and not their glider. I think the G-120 would be a great training platform (+6, -4 Gs) if your instructor is well-versed in aerobatics. Basic spin and unusual attitude training in the G-120 should transfer to your RV quite well.

Ron,
Thanks for the reply. I don?t know much about the plane yet but it?s a Grob G-115c with an O-320, +6-3G, and thankfully has sticks. Apparently a baby brother to the G-120. Should do the job.
 
Bob,
At contests and sanctioned practice days we always have an observer on the ground with a radio tuned to CTAF to advise incoming and departing aircraft of the aerobatic activity in the airport area and a NOTAM should be published as well. You and I know that few pilots read NOTAMS and there are always people flying over airfields without making an advisory call. It sure helps to have an observer on the ground but occasionally one gets missed. We do what we can.

I recall seeing TFRs issued in our area for airshows, I thought that was the norm? In fact the more I think about it if you're expecting people to not enter an area so you can perform then it should be restricted, otherwise it's see and avoid like everywhere else right?
 
I recall seeing TFRs issued in our area for airshows, I thought that was the norm? In fact the more I think about it if you're expecting people to not enter an area so you can perform then it should be restricted, otherwise it's see and avoid like everywhere else right?

Never heard of anyone setting up a TFR for a practice day. I doubt you would get the FAA to do that. So, see and avoid is the usual practice and we have an observer on the ground with a radio to look for traffic and advise them of the aerobatic activity and suggest a course of action to avoid conflict. The pilot in the box may not see conflicting traffic as he is usually pretty busy. He can be directed to "knock it off" if necessary to avoid traffic.
 
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