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Minimum Lumens/candela for LED landing lights

ALagonia

Well Known Member
Any comments on what the minimum acceptable is for landing lights? I don?t mean to start the debate that you never have enough light. Looking for comments on what the minimum acceptable is from those with experience.
It is time for me to change out the old projector bulbs for LEDs and would like some advice. There are so many to choose from with prices ranging from acceptable to wow.
Thanks in advance for any comments
 
PAR36 Rigid 4 LED 10 degree spots that claim 1800 Lumens look one notch brighter than 55w halogen bulbs.

They draw half as many amps. I would buy their next up offering if looking for a drop-in.

Most projector bulbs are in wingtip housings, not leading edges, so guessing you don't have a PAR36.

Can you post a pic of your current setup?
 
I bought some MR16 55 Watt substitutes from https://flyleds.com/ (forum advertiser). Far brighter than a Halogen with less power. I have original shear wing tips with small lens. I was able to get the taxi/landing/recognition light with Nav and Strobe all stuffed in the wing tip. Forget the Halogen. These are far brighter with much less power. I recommend them. I think these will be fine for landing, typical night operations at airports I am familiar with and recognition lights. I can tell you they only draw about an AMP and put out way more bright light than the Halogen. The Halogen gets smoking hot. This single LED does get hot but has massive heat sink.

This is what I have: https://flyleds.com/products/#!/Spot-lights-Individuals/p/108852015/category=0

Here is something to think about. Where are you going to mount them? What kind of night flying (and night taxing) and where?

As a new pilot long ago, I'd rent a plane (Piper Archer I recall). Me and the wife would fly to one of the San Juan Island Airports, Washington State for dinner. Arriving near sunset it was still light. Coming back home, black sky, no surrounding lights near airport, little or no ramp and taxiway lights, minimal runway lights, the single fixed nose cowl light was terrible. I could not see much, huge black hole blind spots. All I saw was a little in front of me (emphasis on little). Once I shut down and got out, made sure I was not taxing into something or into a ditch. Nights with near full moon, big city airports with runway, taxi, ramp lights... well you get the point. What are you trying to do? Many people put full night lights on their RV and never fly at night. Also FAR's don't require a landing light on light GA non commercial planes.

With a sliding canopy I am thinking a portable sport-light could be used to augment my lighting, if I find myself taxing on a really dark night, on an unfamiliar dark ramp or airport.
 
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PAR36 Rigid 4 LED 10 degree spots that claim 1800 Lumens look one notch brighter than 55w halogen bulbs.

They draw half as many amps. I would buy their next up offering if looking for a drop-in.

Most projector bulbs are in wingtip housings, not leading edges, so guessing you don't have a PAR36.

Can you post a pic of your current setup?
I?ve tried to,post pics but have been unsuccessful. I have wing tip lighting now. Happy to send you a pic via email. Is that okay for you?
 
The question, as asked, is very nearly unanswerable. Not criticizing, just stating that there's no magic number of lumens that's "enough". There are far too many variables to take into consideration. Other posters have mentioned some of them, particularly location of the landing light on the airframe. The mission-derived variables are huge.

Here's how I looked at it for our aircraft. I operate from an airport which is paved, has good runway edge lighting but otherwise is pretty much as dark as the inside of a cave at night. We also have wildlife which frequently is in the aircraft maneuvering area at night - deer, turkeys, coyotes etc. Our aircraft is a high-wing aircraft (Glasair Sportsman) which originally was provisioned from the factory to accept a pair of MR-16-format halogen lights in the engine cowl. These lights are uniformly understood to be junk - inadequate in light output and beam shape and mechanically unreliable. As a result I have left the dimples for them in the cowl but have not installed these lights.

After assessing "need" versus "want" I bought several inexpensive LED lighting units to assess their performance. Most of them are now installed on tractors and the like since none were really up to the task of keeping our aircraft operations safe. These relatively low-cost test units gave me an idea of what I wanted in terms of total light output and beam pattern.

In the end I went with a Baja Squadron Pro in each wingtip. They are rated at 4300 lumens each and have a tight spot beam. They provide adequate lighting for night ops, including with wet pavement. Adequate, not barely adequate like a typical PAR36, but truly adequate. They still provide more light than any other GA aircraft I've ever flown, and by a huge margin. On short final the entire width of the runway is lit up, plus some of the grass on each side and as I transition from descent to level-off the beams project far enough down the runway that I've been able to safely execute a go-around when I got the glow of deer's eyes and more than a hint if the outline of their bodies a thousand feet or so from the button.

If I had to do it over again I would choose the same lights in the wingtips or perhaps look at the new FlyLEDS option for wingtip installation.

If going with the Baja Squadron Pros again I would opt to install the wider-angle "cornering" lens on one of them to fill in a little bit of the darker area directly ahead of the aircraft. This lens covers two of the four LED emitters, thus the spot beam from half of the lamp would still be available for down-the-runway visibility.

With wingtip lights there's always a convergence point between the two wingtip light beams - in our case that convergence point is likely 150 feet in front of the aircraft. While these lights provide a uniform beam pattern (no huge shadow areas like the typical PAR36 GE4509 incandescent lamps) and decent "spill" outside the central beam, there's still a little lack of surety about what's immediately in front of the aircraft when taxiing on a very dark night.

During the next annual inspection I'll be installing a pair of smaller LED lamp fixtures in the two locations originally provisioned in the Sportsman cowl. These will be used to provide light directly in front of the aircraft to aid in taxiing. They will add about 2000 lumens (1000 each).

Also, the wingtip lights are being wig-wagged using the wig-wag controller from Perihelion. I've had excellent PIREPS and reports from controllers regarding the visibility of our aircraft.

I hope this information is helpful.
 
The question, as asked, is very nearly unanswerable. Not criticizing, just stating that there's no magic number of lumens that's "enough". There are far too many variables to take into consideration. Other posters have mentioned some of them, particularly location of the landing light on the airframe. The mission-derived variables are huge.

Here's how I looked at it for our aircraft. I operate from an airport which is paved, has good runway edge lighting but otherwise is pretty much as dark as the inside of a cave at night. We also have wildlife which frequently is in the aircraft maneuvering area at night - deer, turkeys, coyotes etc. Our aircraft is a high-wing aircraft (Glasair Sportsman) which originally was provisioned from the factory to accept a pair of MR-16-format halogen lights in the engine cowl. These lights are uniformly understood to be junk - inadequate in light output and beam shape and mechanically unreliable. As a result I have left the dimples for them in the cowl but have not installed these lights.

After assessing "need" versus "want" I bought several inexpensive LED lighting units to assess their performance. Most of them are now installed on tractors and the like since none were really up to the task of keeping our aircraft operations safe. These relatively low-cost test units gave me an idea of what I wanted in terms of total light output and beam pattern.

In the end I went with a Baja Squadron Pro in each wingtip. They are rated at 4300 lumens each and have a tight spot beam. They provide adequate lighting for night ops, including with wet pavement. Adequate, not barely adequate like a typical PAR36, but truly adequate. They still provide more light than any other GA aircraft I've ever flown, and by a huge margin. On short final the entire width of the runway is lit up, plus some of the grass on each side and as I transition from descent to level-off the beams project far enough down the runway that I've been able to safely execute a go-around when I got the glow of deer's eyes and more than a hint if the outline of their bodies a thousand feet or so from the button.

If I had to do it over again I would choose the same lights in the wingtips or perhaps look at the new FlyLEDS option for wingtip installation.

If going with the Baja Squadron Pros again I would opt to install the wider-angle "cornering" lens on one of them to fill in a little bit of the darker area directly ahead of the aircraft. This lens covers two of the four LED emitters, thus the spot beam from half of the lamp would still be available for down-the-runway visibility.

With wingtip lights there's always a convergence point between the two wingtip light beams - in our case that convergence point is likely 150 feet in front of the aircraft. While these lights provide a uniform beam pattern (no huge shadow areas like the typical PAR36 GE4509 incandescent lamps) and decent "spill" outside the central beam, there's still a little lack of surety about what's immediately in front of the aircraft when taxiing on a very dark night.

During the next annual inspection I'll be installing a pair of smaller LED lamp fixtures in the two locations originally provisioned in the Sportsman cowl. These will be used to provide light directly in front of the aircraft to aid in taxiing. They will add about 2000 lumens (1000 each).

Also, the wingtip lights are being wig-wagged using the wig-wag controller from Perihelion. I've had excellent PIREPS and reports from controllers regarding the visibility of our aircraft.

I hope this information is helpful.

Very helpful. I was thinking of the Baja Squadron Pro lights. A friend has them and likes them in his 7.
Just looking for as many comments as possible before I undertake the process of changing out what I have.
BTW, I have a 9 with wingtip lighting.
My home field has runway edge lighting but the airport is in a dark hole in a mountainous region of north Georgia. We also have wild life in the area but I have never seen any on the runway. In my previous life I had to frequently buzz the runway to move the cows and/or horses. But that?s another whole story.
 
+1 FlyLEDs

+1 for the wingtip mounted FlyLED?s. 2 amps per pair as opposed to 15 amps per pair on the MR16?s, less heat, way more light (totally subjective 4x more), easy drop in replacement.
 
The good news is there are many options for builders to pick what bests fits their objective and budget. I trust Vans factory to make wise and prudent choices based on reliability, performance and support and they sell AeroLEDs and use them on their experiment and SLA aircraft which speaks volumes IMHO.
 
I put the Baja Design XL racer LEDs on my Ducati for the work commute through the sierras and deer avoidance, they turn the night into day. warning, that 399.95 price is not the price for a pair....They are worth every penny.
 
I have the Baja Designs in my wing tips. I think they are 8600 lumens together IIRC. Super bright. Since I've put those in Paul at Flyleds has added LED landing and taxi lights to his line. Today, I would go with Flyleds for the Nav/Strobe/Landing lights. Simplicity, great product and support. Won't find better IMHO!

Like others have mentioned. The current draws with LEDS is much MUCH less than old stuff. Before my upgrade my landing lights alone were drawing about 24 AMPS! The Baja Designs draw total of 3.4!
 
Anyone have any luck with a Satco or Duracell LED bulb? I'm currently using x2 MR16 (MR5.3) 75-watt halogen narrow beam spot for my landing lights. Can only use one per wingtip before exceeding amperage limitations, but have room for two per wingtip. Noise might be an issue.

See: https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/led13517
At 450 lumens spread over a 40 degree beam, as well as being warm white, these would be great for the living room.
They would be a step backwards from what you already have...

Our Single Spotlights on the other hand have 1200 lumens of daylight white light concentrated into an 8 degree beam, only one amp of current draw, and should roughly double your current light output.

Lots of options here:
 
+1 on Squadron Pros

My home airport, W96, is pretty much of a black hole at night -- and I have also had the nose drop on landing to reveal several pairs of deer eyes on the runway. (It turns out that if you lock up the brakes on a Piper Warrior, it squeals at high pitch, but tracks remarkably straight....)

After I bought my RV-9A I got two Baja Squadron Pros in "spot" configuration for my leading edge mounts. I really like them. They are a major improvement over the Team Aerodynamix Whelen LEDs that preceded them, which were in turn a major improvement over the halogen bulbs that had been installed by the previous owner.

I think the Squadron's offer a ton of bang for the buck. Not sure if they would fit in a wingtip.

Very helpful. I was thinking of the Baja Squadron Pro lights. A friend has them and likes them in his 7.
Just looking for as many comments as possible before I undertake the process of changing out what I have.
BTW, I have a 9 with wingtip lighting.
My home field has runway edge lighting but the airport is in a dark hole in a mountainous region of north Georgia. We also have wild life in the area but I have never seen any on the runway. In my previous life I had to frequently buzz the runway to move the cows and/or horses. But that’s another whole story.
 
Rv9

My home airport, W96, is pretty much of a black hole at night -- and I have also had the nose drop on landing to reveal several pairs of deer eyes on the runway. (It turns out that if you lock up the brakes on a Piper Warrior, it squeals at high pitch, but tracks remarkably straight....)

After I bought my RV-9A I got two Baja Squadron Pros in "spot" configuration for my leading edge mounts. I really like them. They are a major improvement over the Team Aerodynamix Whelen LEDs that preceded them, which were in turn a major improvement over the halogen bulbs that had been installed by the previous owner.

I think the Squadron's offer a ton of bang for the buck. Not sure if they would fit in a wingtip.

In the rv9 i tried the baja?s and they would not fit well; the ?9 tips are too thin. Ut at Osh i saw paul?s FLy LEDs at high noon and even a block away they were bright, and he designed them to fit the 9?s tip cut out. Bought ?the works? kit the next day. These are really bright.
 
One issue is lumens and candela are some of the most obscure antique units of measurements in all if physics. As pointed out beam width and other factors are in play. It's hard to get a feel for the different units.

If you are on ramp or runway with no lights on moon less night good luck. The biggest issue is turning where taxi and Ldg lights are not shining. Large aircraft have lights on steerable nose wheel (so they point where you turn) and some have turn lights in wing root.

One night in a Piper I could not see the taxiway to get from dark ramp to runway, which was lit. This was in Washington state San Jaun island, no moon light. I shut down and got out and looked. There were ditches next to taxiway and runway.

Slider canopy drivers consider a hand held spot light! :D
 
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Make sure whatever you use doesn't cause RF noise before you spend all that time installing them. I tried some off brand LED spots a few months ago trying to save a few bucks. The light was awesome. So was the radio noise. Ended up spending the money for the Baja spots. No noise and good light landing at my grass strip on the darkest nights. As for current draw, having 100% incandescent on day 1 to now being 100% LED, I leave all exterior lights on all the time.
 
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Same here

I fly in some busy airspace so i figured why not leave the lights on -- the airliners do! At least at the altitudes I fly.

Along those same lines, I need to get a flasher. There's already a switch and circuit installed by the builder, but it doesn't work for LEDs. I confess I dread digging behind the panel to find and replace it....

As for current draw, having 100% incandescent on day 1 to now being 100% LED, I leave all exterior lights on all the time.
 
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