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uAvionix EchoUAT and Disappearing Targets

MartySantic

Well Known Member
A few locally, and a few in Texas have experienced targets that disappear and sometimes reappear randomly. Anyone else experiencing the same? Anyone know if uAvionix is working on this issue?
 
I've got the latest software and have seen the same on mine. It usually seems to happen with the traffic that's close by.
 
This is a known issue. It was discussed at length on the GNS480Yahoo group, and not that I fully understand the guts of the Echo, but the up shot as I believe is that the Echo does not filter or prioritize targets based on range or altitude. It just fires all it gets down the 232 pipe. When that pipe gets overloaded, it drops and re-acquires targets at random...........

I believe Uavionix argument for this implementation is to let the EFIS mfg do the prioritization and filtering - I cant explain how that works if stuff is getting dropped at the input cause that makes no sense to me - maybe someone better can explain it. In anycase, I talked to Jeff at GRT about it and they know about it and do some processing to handle the situation, but more work apparently needs to be done.

Again, if someone else can explain it better/knows more, like you guys, I'm all ears.....
 
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This is a known issue. It was discussed at length on the GNS480Yahoo group, and not that I fully understand the guts of the Echo, but the up shot as I believe is that the Echo does not filter or prioritize targets based on range or altitude. It just fires all it gets down the 232 pipe. When that pipe gets overloaded, it drops and re-acquires targets at random...........

I believe Uavionix argument for this implementation is to let the EFIS mfg do the prioritization and filtering - I cant explain how that works if stuff is getting dropped at the input cause that makes no sense to me - maybe someone better can explain it. In anycase, I talked to Jeff at GRT about it and they know about it and do some processing to handle the situation, but more work apparently needs to be done.

Again, if someone else can explain it better/knows more, like you guys, I'm all ears.....

There is also another known issue with some of the other UAvionics receivers in metro areas where you may have line of sight to multiple adsb towers. The quick fix was to use the Flightaware ADSB filter in series in the antenna input.

When I was testing the new Dynon unit, this greatly improved the reliability of the 472, until Dynon had uAvionic add the filters into the final production unit.

While I have no specific knowledge, it may help with the other uAvionics units too. Its about $15, so it doesn't cost a whole lot to experiment a bit.
 
I had horrible experiences all the way around with the Echo, but fixed most of the issues by building a GDL90 filter/converter box that also allows transponder and altitude encoder input for the Echo. There will be more information on it that I'll be posting towards the end of June and it's potentially something that I'll open-source out so that others can have the fixes too. Without it, the Echo is not a system I'd be happy with. Some of the issues are fixed behind the scenes by AFS/GRT/Dynon, for users of their systems, but most do not address the root cause...bad software on the Echo.

Anyway, more to come later. PM me if you want me to email you later, and shoot me your email address. Or email me if you wish. I'll be doing an extensive test flight in less than 2 weeks that'll cover a few thousand miles with 2 planes, and once that is done, I may share the project.
 
Hemispheric Altitude Rules?

My GRT EX lets me select the thickness of the airspace puck in which it shows traffic (traffic above and below the puck isn't displayed).

So, if I tell it to show traffic from 2000ft below to 2000ft above, and I fly at 4500ft, then traffic at 2500ft and 6500ft will blink on/off as my plane or the traffic bobbles around our respective hemispheric altitudes. I think this is all but guaranteed by the thickness selections in the GRT menu.

Seems like an easy fix would be for the GRT menu to allow setting a puck of arbitrary thickness (eg, 1750ft), or for the GRT display to add a little time hysteresis (keeps displaying the traffic for a while after it has moved out of the puck in case it moves back in).

Bo
 
.............to add a little time hysteresis (keeps displaying the traffic for a while after it has moved out of the puck in case it moves back in).

Bo


Jeff told me they do that, and I mention it in the other thread linked above where I posted his comments. In anycase, its called "coasting".....but how long the coasting window is, that I dont know...
 
I?m experiencing disappearing traffic also. In one instance I had visual on an army helo about 1000 ft. below at two miles and it the target would disappear and reappear every few seconds. It was not a puck size altitude issue. My old AFS EFIS won?t support ADSB so traffic display is limited to Foreflight. I sure miss my Navworx EXP. I?m considering firing the old Stratux back up and using it for traffic.
Bobby
 
The blinking traffic is not from the traffic falling into and out of the puck around your aircraft, it's from that traffic not getting properly transmitted to your EFIS on the serial line. In my opinion, one of the huge flaws in the Echo is that it does not filter traffic at all to put on the RS232. We've done some work to calculate how many targets you can send via RS232, because in my case, the EFIS needed 38,400 baud. You really can't effectively run an EFIS sending it what may end up being 200 targets, at 38,400 baud. You can't even effectively send 200 targets at 115,200 baud. So if they don't filter them down to only the targets that you care about, the stock Echo will continuously overload the RS232 connection. They even break standards for what the GDL90 doc says, in that you're supposed to send all of the traffic in one message, but their message had to be broken into multiples in order to even send that many, so they send it in multiples. That means that, lets say your EFIS gets only 1 or 2 huge messages a second, you may not get the same traffic repeating in the timeframe that your EFIS wants to see it coming in. So it blinks. Miss more than maybe one or two sequences and you have blinking targets. It's just plain bad programming, which may be caused by hardware limitations...not sure.

What you WANT to do is first figure out what is REASONABLE to display. Maybe set an outer boundary of 50-100 miles that you simply ignore anything that's even out there. Closer, if you live in high traffic areas. Then, set a puck around the airplane vertically, so that you ignore all the airliners 20,000+ feet above you. Maybe set that puck to +/- 5000' vertically. So now that you're only looking at maybe 60 miles ahead and +/- 5000', you have a far lower count on traffic. You also increase SAFETY because, and people will poo poo and discount this, but EVERYTHING you display on the EFIS takes mental cycles to process. Add in traffic that is absolutely no factor, and it may cause you to have a higher workload just to mentally process it. Do that in an IFR environment and you are just asking for problems. Also, clutter the map page with too many targets and you may not be able to read map features or airport identifiers. So it's a safety thing.

So once you have that traffic pared down and you ignore all of that stuff you don't care about anyway, you sort it out by distance. That way you can focus first on sending out the traffic that is nearest your position. If you have 20 planes within 5 miles of you, like at OSH, WHY in the heck do you even CARE about the 150 planes that are 50 miles away? You don't. So sort them in a table, and track them. Maybe track 50 or so, just as a random number. A new one comes in that's closer than #50 and it bumps #50 off the list and re-sorts.

So now you have the nearest 50 targets, and you track them...speed, altitude, Vertical Speed, distance, closing rate, and such.

Now you pick a number that your EFIS can handle, without overwhelming the RS232 line. I'm sure if you ask GRT and AFS if they LIKE having a firehose of non-critical traffic coming at them, they would say they don't. But if you say you want to only display the nearest 20, you just peel off the top 20 on that list of 50 and transmit those via RS232.

Now the EFIS is happy. And, you can even coast them since you're tracking all of the targets parameters, so if someone is in a turn and their antenna doesn't transmit to you for 5 seconds, you don't blink them out...you calculate where they should be, so you still know which direction to look. Not too long, or you could have them significantly out in a different position...but maybe 5-10 seconds. As long as you calculate where they were headed and at what speed and vertical speed, you should be able to at least have a close approximation, which is better than having them there and not having any knowledge of them.

So that's a little preview of how this box that I've been working with another RV-10 guy on works. And, it works real well. I was ready to throw my Echo against a brick wall, but this makes it actually useful.

Sadly, I had one more big hurdle to overcome. The Echo doesn't have any sort of traffic collision algorithm that I can find. So, every target on my chelton EFIS would NEVER alert. I could literally aim my 2 planes at eachother (and I did) and fly at 150kts each right at eachother and then pass by eachother off our wing, and never get an alert. That was a function NavWorx DID offer, that uAvionix isn't as far as I can tell. NOT A HAPPY CAMPER after finding that out. But, thank goodness we had this project that I was working on. Thanks to a lot more programming, we added a bit of collision algorithm to it so that we can try to calculate if traffic is a factor or not, and alert well ahead of when we'll hit it. That was a lot of work to do just by general thinking it through. But, it works now.

There is more than that, but, suffice it to say that at least with my EFIS, I would never want to have that product in my plane, without being able to modify things a bit. Those of you who have GRT and AFS there to help overcome these issues are in a better situation for sure, but sadly, those companies are still going to suffer from the strangulation that the Echo puts on that RS232 line by trying to pass all that non-essential traffic. Were they (uAvionix) to do a bit more software development and product improvement, they could make the manufacturers (and users) much happier.

I have zero knowledge about their SkyBeacon and other products, such as their new transponders, so I can't really comment on those other than to say that I'm shocked enough by how many holes there are in the Echo that I will likely never look at those other products as an option. Once I pull this Echo out sometime down the road, I'm going with something like the Garmin 345 or Lynx NGT-9000. To me, traffic and especially weather, is far too important to skimp on.
 
First burned by navworx, now this. I noticed the lack of traffic advisories but never looked into it. This is why ill be installing a GTX345 into my other aircraft. I know up front what I'm getting without having to guess or have others in the same boat do R&D to discover the pitfalls of the product. All great info between the threads that I wish had been out earlier. Funny how no dealer or manufacturer representative is around now to answer the mail.

TimO, thanks for the useful info shedding some light on this.
 
There is also another known issue with some of the other UAvionics receivers in metro areas where you may have line of sight to multiple adsb towers. The quick fix was to use the Flightaware ADSB filter in series in the antenna input.

When I was testing the new Dynon unit, this greatly improved the reliability of the 472, until Dynon had uAvionic add the filters into the final production unit.

While I have no specific knowledge, it may help with the other uAvionics units too. Its about $15, so it doesn't cost a whole lot to experiment a bit.

Bob,
The only item I could find via a search is a bandpass filter. How would a simple bandpass filter help. Does nothing to prioritize traffic. Is there some other product? Do you have a link?
 
Shane,

If you are interested, shoot me an email or message on that box. I'll try to get some good photos and maybe a video or two on my vacation flight, and once we get things tested, it's not hard to build or install, and it could at least make your current install be better. I feel burned too. I bought 2 NavWorX systems, and they were actually great to work with up until the last couple years. I was pretty happy. I did want 1090Mhz receive though, and that was even something they were intending on doing this year, as they told me at OSH 2017. But after they folded, I caved and went with 2 Echos. After spending all that money, I'd hoped to be happy with the results...but now I can say I really wish I'd have went a different route. Between my buddy and I, we have hundreds of hours of effort into this box we built, and I've bought multiple versions of boards an components trying to keep making sure every last thing is as solid as can be. So it's been a lot of effort. I'd hope that the effort can make a difference to the community. It would be build-it-yourself, but it's not a complicated project.
Tim
 
Bob,
The only item I could find via a search is a bandpass filter. How would a simple bandpass filter help. Does nothing to prioritize traffic. Is there some other product? Do you have a link?

Read my post, did I say anything about prioritizing traffic? I did start by stating, "Another known issue". It did address a problem with disappearing traffic in areas where there is multiple towers within line of sight on another uAvionics ADSB receiver.
 
Tim, and others: I commend you for your discernment of the echo issues and efforts to fix. I use the Echo with the GRT Safefly GPS, but have not had the time, inclination, or ability to diagnose problems.

Did you address these issues with uAvionixs first? What was their response? I'd hope they are working on the same issues.
 
I initially mentioned some of the issues to them, but, I didn't get the feeling that they felt any urgency on them. And, when it came to issues with things like coasting (things that an EFIS maker could implement), they seem satisfied that if an EFIS maker can correct the issues, they can ignore them. I ended up being less than impressed and was left with the feeling that they aren't truly interested in doing anything too big to fix them, especially if you are not using one of the 2 or 3 most common EFIS systems. So I gave up. At one point they did offer me the new harness, but as I saw how it would work, it would have still left my system pretty limited...and we were already getting fired up to start the 2nd version of our box. Initially our box was built as a GDL90 to Serial-ARINC TCAS converter, but once WSI weather went away and I hooked up ADS-B traffic and weather format, we started the software changes to be GDL90 in and Out with filtering and all the other features. Once we started down that road, I was satisfied that whatever we came up with was going to work better than what they did. And the further we got into it, the more that was validated when we found things like collision alerts missing.

I'm honestly not sure if they have the hardware horsepower to do everything. It's certainly possible, but I haven't ripped one apart. I know the wifi module uses regular arduino ESP8266 type stuff in it. That right there tells you that this stuff wasn't purpose-built avionics. (Neither is our project, but we're just a couple of geeks, not an avionics company)

I figure *if* they address it, it would likely be with a different product, such as their new transponder. But, I'm not willing to take the leap to even test that at this point. The next time I put out cash it's going to be for something that is more main stream and works in certified planes.
 
As a fence-sitter on the Skybeacon who knows just enough to grasp how much I don't know, thank you!

I await the "Q2 2018" Uavionix releases to see what is happening officially.
 
I initially mentioned some of the issues to them, but, I didn't get the feeling that they felt any urgency on them. And, when it came to issues with things like coasting (things that an EFIS maker could implement), they seem satisfied that if an EFIS maker can correct the issues, they can ignore them. I ended up being less than impressed and was left with the feeling that they aren't truly interested in doing anything too big to fix them, especially if you are not using one of the 2 or 3 most common EFIS systems. So I gave up. At one point they did offer me the new harness, but as I saw how it would work, it would have still left my system pretty limited...and we were already getting fired up to start the 2nd version of our box. Initially our box was built as a GDL90 to Serial-ARINC TCAS converter, but once WSI weather went away and I hooked up ADS-B traffic and weather format, we started the software changes to be GDL90 in and Out with filtering and all the other features. Once we started down that road, I was satisfied that whatever we came up with was going to work better than what they did. And the further we got into it, the more that was validated when we found things like collision alerts missing.

I'm honestly not sure if they have the hardware horsepower to do everything. It's certainly possible, but I haven't ripped one apart. I know the wifi module uses regular arduino ESP8266 type stuff in it. That right there tells you that this stuff wasn't purpose-built avionics. (Neither is our project, but we're just a couple of geeks, not an avionics company)

I figure *if* they address it, it would likely be with a different product, such as their new transponder. But, I'm not willing to take the leap to even test that at this point. The next time I put out cash it's going to be for something that is more main stream and works in certified planes.

You mention common EFIS systems... Is disappearing targets a problem with ForeFlight running on a mini iPad? Does FF have coasting and filtering?
 
It gets worse

If the Ping is flooding your EFIS now, then imagine how bad it will be once the datastream is upgraded to include lightning strikes and the other products planned for release this year. I'm definitely interested in your project TimO.

Don

Shane,

If you are interested, shoot me an email or message on that box. I'll try to get some good photos and maybe a video or two on my vacation flight, and once we get things tested, it's not hard to build or install, and it could at least make your current install be better. I feel burned too. I bought 2 NavWorX systems, and they were actually great to work with up until the last couple years. I was pretty happy. I did want 1090Mhz receive though, and that was even something they were intending on doing this year, as they told me at OSH 2017. But after they folded, I caved and went with 2 Echos. After spending all that money, I'd hoped to be happy with the results...but now I can say I really wish I'd have went a different route. Between my buddy and I, we have hundreds of hours of effort into this box we built, and I've bought multiple versions of boards an components trying to keep making sure every last thing is as solid as can be. So it's been a lot of effort. I'd hope that the effort can make a difference to the community. It would be build-it-yourself, but it's not a complicated project.
Tim
 
As a fence-sitter on the Skybeacon who knows just enough to grasp how much I don't know, thank you!

I await the "Q2 2018" Uavionix releases to see what is happening officially.

....So were in Q2 now....or are you talking about OSH release info? Do you know there are things in the works? I think were all devoid of good intel so would be nice to know if they are acting on all this churn.....
 
I am making light, sarcastically, of their (Uavionix) website's updates at the time of posting.

Funny, not one aviation publication publishes any of this info.
 
We've been made aware of the issue and are trying to isolate the cause. We are conducting flight testing and will accept logs of data from customers.
We?d like to get Foreflight logs so we can review the behavior. It is a bit of a process but it will give us a detailed look at what is happening. We can also replay the flight on our iPad to see your exact experience and see what the echoUAT was sending to Foreflight when the traffic was disappearing.

Before we delve into the logging please verify your firmware versions.
You should have the latest transceiver release 2.4.15, system 3.26 and WiFi 1.3.1

Here is the address to the support page to check your firmware and/or update it. The links for the firmware are listed under ?Support Articles.?



To log echoUAT data in ForeFlight.

1. When connected to the echoUAT tap the settings (gear icon) in ForeFlight.

2. Then tap the ADS-B or echoUAT entry under Devices.

3.Then enable logging, note this is different from the normal flight logging. This feature must be enabled for us to receive meaningful data.


After enabling logging please fly a flight and note the time you see a target disappear. We can then review the log and determine why the aircraft disappeared.

In order to send the log file to us you'll need to connect the iPad to your PC or Mac and open iTunes.

1. Open iTunes with the iPad connected.

2. Click on the Device icon

3. Click on File Sharing> ForeFlight and select the latest GDL90 Log file. It should have the date of your flight as part of the filename

4. Scroll to the bottom of the screen and click "Save to".

5. Select a location on your PC or Mac so you can retrieve the file.

6. After saving the file, attach it to an email and send it to [email protected].

If you would like this logging step by step with graphics/screenshots of the process please email [email protected].

Our engineers will review the log file so we can determine why the traffic is disappearing.

When we understand exactly what the issue is we will post the solution.
We greatly appreciate your support and we will stand behind our products.


Thank you,

Kurt
uAvionix Support
 
We've been made aware of the issue and are trying to isolate the cause. We are conducting flight testing and will accept logs of data from customers.

Our engineers will review the log file so we can determine why the traffic is disappearing.

When we understand exactly what the issue is we will post the solution.
We greatly appreciate your support and we will stand behind our products.


Thank you,

Kurt
uAvionix Support

Good to see you finally came up on voice. Looking forward to reading the posted solution here on VAF.
 
reliable

My Echo, usually flown out of Prescott, home of ERAU west is working well.
No aircraft gets anywhere close to mine without being reported. Period.
Now, having said that.... there are lots of targets I pay no attention to.
I have been using ADS-B far longer than most. I was testing the concept in Alaska during the Capstone project. These days, I fly over Phoenix class B frequently. If I don't filter by both altitude and range selection, I can have thirty targets presented on my screen. Most are meaningless. I am only concerned if a piece of aluminum is headed my way... and on a collision course. Part of teaching instrument flying has always been scan, evaluate and react. And tune out distractions. I have seen the plots and technical reports analyzed by uAvionix recently. There seem to be some clear situations where radar coverage and or ground stations are not clearly line of site.
The company also seems to be dedicating resources in a timely manner to keep the hardware and software working quite well. Posting on this forum... maybe not so often. I am glad to see Kurt jump in, as members here want to see what is happening.
I look forward to the FAA blessing the hardware for certified planes as well, which will put uAvionix firmly on the map as a serious player in the avionics world. I regret the behavior of Navworx, but I cannot change anything in the past. Anyone who has a specific question should feel free to PM me at any time. I read updates daily. Cheers and have a great week.
 
For Kurt, thanks for working on this. I don't use Foreflight so I can't send logs. I do use my GRT to filter traffic by altitude, but I would wish that either the Echo or GRT filter by range. I have no need to see traffic more than (pick a number) 15 or 20 miles away. Get rid of all those traffic targets beyond that range. They just garbage up my map display. Thanks again for working on this.
 
New software is out for GRT that will filter by range the traffic target display. Already had the ability to filter by altitude. Will be fun to see if any of this helps with the occasional disappearing traffic problem.
 
Same Symptoms, Two Different Devices

This disappearing traffic issue is unfortunate and unnerving. I’ve seen it since I’ve installed the Echo and on two different units. I’ve had it happen the last three times that I’ve flown and the symptoms were very similar.

First of all, I have all the software updated on the uAvionix units.

The first device I saw it on is FlyQ on an iPad Mini. My most recent two flights with that set up are as follows:

I was climbing out of KLVK with no targets nearby displayed. I was at almost 3000 feet and looked up to find a Cessna right above me, maybe 200-300 feet above me, same direction. There was never a target displayed on my iPad.

On my next flight I was flying near the town of Aromas, between KCHV and KWVI. Again, there were no targets displayed near me. Suddenly a target popped up to my left less than 1/4 mile away and 400 feet above me. Since it was approaching me at a 90 degree angle on nearly a collision course, I descended. I got a very good look at the underside of the aircraft as it passed over me.

And here was my experience today using my brand new iFly 740b:

I was flying between KLVK and KRHV. Again, no traffic was indicated near me then something popped up in front of me, less than a quarter mile, then it disappeared. A few seconds later I saw it out the window slightly below me, heading towards me. As I passed, that airplane’s target popped up again along with another plane which I never did see.

As I read somewhere here, close targets do indeed appear to be most affected.

The iFly looks to have the capability of recording ADS-B data. This was the first flight I made with it but unfortunately I didn’t have data logging turned on. I will certainly keep it turned on for every flight from here on out and will send it to uAvionix.

I’m assuming that uAvionnix hadn’t seen these behaviors during their test flights. Very puzzling. I really hope that they can solve this issue soon.

The Navworx unit didn’t have these issues but as was pointed out, had some sort of internal filtering.
 
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Issue Duplicated at uAvionix

I sent Ryan from uAvionix a description of what happened to me and he responded as follows:

Thank you for your feedback, I do understand your frustration. We have recently been able to reproduce similar issues in our own flight testing. We are working on a solution to resolve the traffic appearing and disappearing.

I hope to have an update for you this week.
 
I sent Ryan from uAvionix a description of what happened to me and he responded as follows:

Thank you for your feedback, I do understand your frustration. We have recently been able to reproduce similar issues in our own flight testing. We are working on a solution to resolve the traffic appearing and disappearing.

I hope to have an update for you this week.

Thanks for the update, Kelly. I can report that with the latest software update, filtering for range, I?m getting less (though not zero) blinking on my GRT Sport SX being fed by a GRT SafeFly/Echo combo.

Nice to know that uAvionix is taking this seriously. As disappointing as their business practices were, NavWorx did know how to process a traffic data stream.
 
I'm using the echo for the navworx fix. At first I had the same issues with frequent appearing and disappearing of targets. After Uavionix's software upgrades I thought it had solved that problem. I can say with no doubt it did help a lot. After reading the updates on this thread, I have paid closer attention and find I do at times see the disappearing of targets. It's great to know that Uavionix is on top of this. I have full confidence they will have it fine tuned soon... hopefully before OSH.
 
Latest firmware upgrade on my GRT Sport SX includes configureable options to filter traffic outside of a specific hockey puck. I haven?t flown with it yet, but GRT will make it work I?m sure.

I?m still interested in the add on filter described earlier. I?d like to be able to filter out specific N numbers from traffic alerts so my formation buddies don?t constantly generate collision alerts that I am going to ignore.
 
Regarding the comments on GRT Fixing the issues, in the last few posts. Just be aware that although GRT can fix some of the issues, their hands are tied from really *fixing* the issues, because the GRT is still hampered by the garbage coming down the RS232 line. They can coast, which will help, but ideally the data coming down the line would already be filtered and they'd only be getting the nearest targets of a certain quantity. So while things may seem better, under the hood GRT is being forced to deal with a bunch of garbage that they're being sent.
 
I flew a 150-mile flight yesterday in loose formation with a Piper Cherokee. I have EchoUAT/SkyFYX-EXT. Cherokee has Stratus ES ADS-B Transponder with “in” capability. Both of us were using iPad and ForeFlight.

We communicated air-to-air and discovered that when I lost him as a target he also lost me at the same time. Targets reappeared at the same time in both airplanes. Granted, this was a single flight and we were not trying to evaluate disappearing target phenomenon, it just became topic of conversation when it was noted.

So it seems that not only is EchoUAT have disappearing target problem but also a problem with ADS-B “out” at the same time.

I have noticed disappearing targets on almost every flight since EchoUAT was installed about two months ago.

I’m anxiously awaiting uAvionix software fix…
 
See my post above ^^^

So, today I was thinking maybe something wrong with ADS-B "out". I just ran a PAPR for yesterday's flight and it failed for missing Baro Alt element.

I have dozens of PAPR's and all have passed even as recently as last week.

I will fly this evening to see if this is just an anomaly...

x1y645.png
 
See my post above ^^^^^

So, tonight I flew a 45 minute flight all within ATC boundary and just now received a clean PAPR report. I saw 5 targets on tonight's flight and none disappeared on mini iPad running ForeFlight. Yesterday's flight must have been an anomaly. I will continue to request and save PAPR reports as time goes on especially with the approach of 2020 deadline for ADS-B.

All is good...
 
Does anyone have an update regarding the uAvionix software fix? I have left two phone messages for them but havent gotten a reply

thanks

erich
 
uAvionix is working on the issue, BUT, needs more data from users. When I talked to them at Airventure, they indicated they received ONE dataset that contained disappearing targets. And the dataset was from me. Sure would be nice if others would follow the instructions that they posted and send the data to them so as to solve this issue. Is so easy to do if you use Foreflight. Many have observed this issue, so sad, many do not take a moment to help solve this issue.

SEE POST #22 in this thread.
 
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I have recently been thinking about this thread and wondering if Uavionics came back to tell us the scoop. Thats for the OSH info, but I guess thats a no. Seems like maybe they dont think their implementation is an issue as designed.

I'll sit on the fence and just keep building for now....

Ironically (funnyish) tho, knowing all that traffic was out there sure didnt help any one on the Sunday arrivals....but of course thats an aviation aberration if ever there was one.
 
I spoke with Kurt yesterday. They are beta testing new firmware the reduces the amount of available targets based on the geographic range and altitude, both with generous limits (20 Miles and 4500 Feet). This would seem to solve the issue people are reporting. I am currently installing the Echo UAT and will report back after some test flights.

Thanks,
Scott
 
Wonder why they don't simply make those 2 variable user configurable. I would like to see further than 20 miles when I'm out in the middle of nowhere with no traffic. It should be easy for them to allow you to set user defined limits, and then set a "max intruders" setting that is settable from 10 to 32 or something like that.
 
Honestly I couldn't care less about the 4th or 5th farthest target from my position.

I agree that we should be able to set how many returns we want to bother with. If some people like to see the totally obscured moving map like we had at Oshkosh, then more power to them.... hockey pucks don't matter at all when I'm in the pattern with 4 or 5 airplanes.
 
Anyone have any new TECHNICAL news on this issue?


(Moderators!!!! pls dont lock this thread - its the only tech one we have on the Echo and thats still important for the community......).
 
I still see targets disappearing at times. Not nearly as bad as before their software upgrade. It's still frustrating though. I had complete faith in the
EXP Navworx box I had. It performed flawlessly the entire time I used it. You can't help but to aquire a feeling of "faith" in your equipment. I don't have that feeling with the echo UAT. I do hope they'll continue to work on this issue.
I'm not a tech guy at all and can't begin to understand how it works. It seems that programming the software to exclude any targets 20 miles out would decrease the electronic workload. But...... it seems this is some basic internal flaw in either the hardware or software. I mean other companies have software that never drops targets... so you have to conclude there is something or a lack of something in the echo causing this.
Hoping they'll come out with something soon.
 
I emailed Kurt on 8-15-18 at uAvionix to ask if I could participate in Beta testing. His reply below:

We got some feedback from other testers and we are making yet another tweak. It's getting there and I appreciate your willingness to help. I'll shoot you a link when the next version is ready, with instructions for updating.
We will need logging so the engineers can go over them and replay the flight as well.
 
Intesting that others with Navworx have reported better filtering. I did the AMOC update on my -600B and get clean bills of health from the ADS-B reports. But I also get disappearing airplanes all the time.

I believe that much of this is just when I drop below or go outside rebroadcast range, so I'm losing direct broadcast from aircraft with 1090MHz transmitters. But it also happens where there should be good radar and rebroadcast coverage. For example, in or near PDX class C, 3000 or above, sometimes ATC will call out an airliner (like, close enough I can see which airline), and I never see it on my screen. Why wouldn't I see all of those guys from the rebroadcast?
 
I just saw Randall's post above. I flew the navworx EXP I think about 18 months before having to remove it. I never even once saw a single target disappear weather I was flying in my local area or a cross country. With the Uavionix, I see
targets disappearing, (or not ever showing up), frequently enough that's it's noticeable.
When I lose targets on the echo, I'm flying in the same areas and altitudes I did with navworx which as I mentioned never lost a target.
 
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Intesting that others with Navworx have reported better filtering. I did the AMOC update on my -600B and get clean bills of health from the ADS-B reports. But I also get disappearing airplanes all the time.

I believe that much of this is just when I drop below or go outside rebroadcast range, so I'm losing direct broadcast from aircraft with 1090MHz transmitters. But it also happens where there should be good radar and rebroadcast coverage. For example, in or near PDX class C, 3000 or above, sometimes ATC will call out an airliner (like, close enough I can see which airline), and I never see it on my screen. Why wouldn't I see all of those guys from the rebroadcast?

If your configuratoin tells the ground station that you receive 1090, they won't rebroadcast any 1090 traffic for you. It is assumed you get it air to air. They only rebroadcast traffic on the frequencies that you are not capable of receiving (your unit tells them this based upon your configuration). They broadcast non-adsb traffic (transponder equipped) to everyone.
 
If your configuratoin tells the ground station that you receive 1090, they won't rebroadcast any 1090 traffic for you. It is assumed you get it air to air. They only rebroadcast traffic on the frequencies that you are not capable of receiving (your unit tells them this based upon your configuration). They broadcast non-adsb traffic (transponder equipped) to everyone.

Makes sense except as it turns out I don't get 1090 directly on the NAVWORX, only UAT. That was a mistake in my post, sorry! Should have said:
I believe that much of this is just when I drop below or go outside rebroadcast range, so I'm losing rebroadcast from aircraft with 1090MHz transmitters
 
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