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Different Substructure and Tank Dies than Skins

rockitdoc

rockitdoc

Well Known Member
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I was watching a Cleaveland uTube the other day where they were describing the difference between the substructure dies and skin dies. Makes sense that the substructure die would develop an 11 thou deeper crater so the skin dimple fits exactly into the substructure. Same discussion for the tank since the sealant takes up some room below the rivet.

My question is:

how important is this in reality? Does it fit into the perfectionist category, and if so, I'm ok with it. It just means more dies and organization.
 
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Please search the archives. The use of substructure dies have been linked to fuel tank seepage around the rivets. Me and thousands of others have not used substructure dies and everything has worked out fine.
 
I used substructure dimple dies in a couple of places on the empennage. I found that they made zero difference in the build quality. Nor, did they make anything less difficult.

The one thing I did notice was that some dimpled parts would no longer be held together with a cleco. An AN3 rivet hole, dimpled with a substructure dimple die simply wouldn't hold a 3/32 Cleco.

I made up some small Cleco backers with #40 holes drilled, but not dimpled for those parts. The AN3 rivets worked fine. And, I didn't notice any problems riveting.
 
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As PilotJohnS stated, There were thousands of aircraft built with flush rivets before these "specialty" dimpling dyes came along. I've never had a problem using standard dimpling dyes throughout the build including the tanks.
 
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I am only repeating what others have said, save your money and put it toward another tool or avgas.

I only have 3,475 hobbs hours on my almost 23-year old RV-6. Only used standard dimple dies on everything. So far, knock on wood, no fuel tank leaks.

I will admit that I purchased the cheapest dimple dies I could buy when I started. I later upgraded and will say to save your money and get the best quality dies available to start with. The dimples are much more crisp and the riveted join noticeably nicer with the high quality chrome plated spring back dimple dies than they are for the plain steel dimple dies.

I have one friend with an award winning RV-6A that has over 4,500-hours on his airplane without using any "substructure" and or "Tank Dies" on his build.
 
RV6_flyer said:
I am only repeating what others have said, save your money and put it toward another tool or avgas.

I only have 3,475 hobbs hours on my almost 23-year old RV-6. Only used standard dimple dies on everything. So far, knock on wood, no fuel tank leaks.

I will admit that I purchased the cheapest dimple dies I could buy when I started. I later upgraded and will say to save your money and get the best quality dies available to start with. The dimples are much more crisp and the riveted join noticeably nicer with the high quality chrome plated spring back dimple dies than they are for the plain steel dimple dies.

I have one friend with an award winning RV-6A that has over 4,500-hours on his airplane without using any "substructure" and or "Tank Dies" on his build.
Click to expand...

What is the difference between the 'spring back' dies and the plain steel? Hardness of the die?
Is there a specific source for the better dies I should focus on. Good tools are something I value.
 
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