Van's Air Force
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12 Pilots Give us your figures!
- Thread starter spriteah
- Start date
Geico266
Well Known Member
This little bird continues to impress me. The figures below are 1/2 fuel (10 gallons) and my 6'1" 210 pound (with clothes on 
, and Leatherman in pocket ) frame in the left seat.
Cruise speed of 130MPH seems to be the sweet spot for the engine and prop combo @ 4,800 - 5,000 RPM burning 3.8 GPH.
Top Speed is 138. (Actual top speed is classified)
Stall w/flaps around 43MPH, straight away, crisp, not much buffet warning (Dynon stall warning works great), easy recovery by releasing back pressure on the stick.
Take off roll, no wind, 40F is approx. 500'.
Landing roll, no wind, 40F is approx. 400'.
I have had take offs and landing rolls of less than 200' with a 15 MPH head wind. The -12 certainly wants to fly.
What is remarkable about this plane (to me anyway) is the controllability at low speeds. I have been practicing to get my landings "on the numbers" spot on every time and realized I need to slow this plane down in the pattern, typical of RV's. I now start on down wind about 75MPH 1/2 flaps, base is 65 full flaps, final is 60 FF, and over the fence at around 55-58 MPH. This give me plenty of remaining lift for a safe and controllable flair & touchdown on the mains only. The flapperons, stabilator, & rudder all still have exceptional authority at these speeds.
Yesterday, I took my first passenger up and the numbers were as advertized for stalls (48 MPH) performance at near gross. We notice the plane was a little bouncey due to afternoon thermals, but then we got in his -9a and felt about the same bounce, but the -9a seemed to cut though the thermals a tad better. The -12 is a much lighter plane and it acts like it in turbulance, nothing bad, just a light plane. The roll rate is faster in the -12 due to the large area of flapperons, both planes are a joy to fly.
The RV-12 is a simple, and safe airplane to fly. Quite honestly, I cannot think of anything I would change about the flying characteristics, or flight controls, except maybe adding roll trim. Van's has "hit the nail on the head" with the RV-12 entry into the E-LSA market.
If anyone has any other specific questions feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Build on!
, and Leatherman in pocket ) frame in the left seat.Cruise speed of 130MPH seems to be the sweet spot for the engine and prop combo @ 4,800 - 5,000 RPM burning 3.8 GPH.
Top Speed is 138. (Actual top speed is classified)
Stall w/flaps around 43MPH, straight away, crisp, not much buffet warning (Dynon stall warning works great), easy recovery by releasing back pressure on the stick.
Take off roll, no wind, 40F is approx. 500'.
Landing roll, no wind, 40F is approx. 400'.
I have had take offs and landing rolls of less than 200' with a 15 MPH head wind. The -12 certainly wants to fly.
What is remarkable about this plane (to me anyway) is the controllability at low speeds. I have been practicing to get my landings "on the numbers" spot on every time and realized I need to slow this plane down in the pattern, typical of RV's. I now start on down wind about 75MPH 1/2 flaps, base is 65 full flaps, final is 60 FF, and over the fence at around 55-58 MPH. This give me plenty of remaining lift for a safe and controllable flair & touchdown on the mains only. The flapperons, stabilator, & rudder all still have exceptional authority at these speeds.
Yesterday, I took my first passenger up and the numbers were as advertized for stalls (48 MPH) performance at near gross. We notice the plane was a little bouncey due to afternoon thermals, but then we got in his -9a and felt about the same bounce, but the -9a seemed to cut though the thermals a tad better. The -12 is a much lighter plane and it acts like it in turbulance, nothing bad, just a light plane. The roll rate is faster in the -12 due to the large area of flapperons, both planes are a joy to fly.
The RV-12 is a simple, and safe airplane to fly. Quite honestly, I cannot think of anything I would change about the flying characteristics, or flight controls, except maybe adding roll trim. Van's has "hit the nail on the head" with the RV-12 entry into the E-LSA market.
If anyone has any other specific questions feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Build on!
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Geico266
Well Known Member
Jim,
One side note here for you guys thinking of, or building the -12 that live in a warm climate. Obviously, the RV-12 has a bubble canopy that can lend itself to turn the occupants into poached stir fry if the ventilation is lacking. I am very happy to report that the side vents supply a VERY nice airflow while on the ground, and in the air the side vents are like two leaf blowers! Almost too much air, which is easily remedied by closing them. I figuired that out all by myself! Plenty of outside air to cool things off.
Now all I need to do is figure out where to put the cup holders!
One side note here for you guys thinking of, or building the -12 that live in a warm climate. Obviously, the RV-12 has a bubble canopy that can lend itself to turn the occupants into poached stir fry if the ventilation is lacking. I am very happy to report that the side vents supply a VERY nice airflow while on the ground, and in the air the side vents are like two leaf blowers! Almost too much air, which is easily remedied by closing them. I figuired that out all by myself!
Plenty of outside air to cool things off. Now all I need to do is figure out where to put the cup holders!
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pierre smith
Well Known Member
So how many strips can you not go into?
Easy...none.
Enjoy,
Easy...none.
Enjoy,
Don't need much runway
I am fortunate enough to have a brand new 5500' X 100' concrete strip. The current taxi-way is about mid-way. I tried to land on the numbers. I had to "drive" it to the taxi-way. Needed maybe 1000' total for very easy landing. Did not know that for sure until yeterday. Have not measured the take-offs or landings yet, but not much. I don't like braking hard upon landing, so I just let it roll for maybe 5 - 600 feet on the concrete. Was nice.
John Bender
I am fortunate enough to have a brand new 5500' X 100' concrete strip. The current taxi-way is about mid-way. I tried to land on the numbers. I had to "drive" it to the taxi-way. Needed maybe 1000' total for very easy landing. Did not know that for sure until yeterday. Have not measured the take-offs or landings yet, but not much. I don't like braking hard upon landing, so I just let it roll for maybe 5 - 600 feet on the concrete. Was nice.
John Bender
I have been going in and out of my 1000 Ft grass strip. After learning to get it slowed down its no problem. Getting off in 500 and landing in 600 . Thats solo with full fuel. I am going to extend it to 1400 for those hot days when I take a passenger. Just a little insurance so I dont clip the 10ft tall corn on the end. I have not taken off or landed on my strip with a passenger yet.
Brad Stiefvater
Brad Stiefvater
I know six years is a bit of a long time to be getting q reply/quest for more info on your post, but yours was the only post the my search for pattern speeds turned up- and you are right on what I was seeking. Is it possible you could tall me what power settings/rpm seemed to produce the desired speed- 75 and level on downwind, 65 & descending on base, and 60 & descending on final? I realized air temp/elevation/weight etc. all enter into it, but as a happy new owner of a -12, these numbers sure would be useful to me. Thanks. Ben.
This little bird continues to impress me. The figures below are 1/2 fuel (10 gallons) and my 6'1" 210 pound (with clothes on
Cruise speed of 130MPH seems to be the sweet spot for the engine and prop combo @ 4,800 - 5,000 RPM burning 3.8 GPH.
Top Speed is 138. (Actual top speed is classified)
Stall w/flaps around 43MPH, straight away, crisp, not much buffet warning (Dynon stall warning works great), easy recovery by releasing back pressure on the stick.
Take off roll, no wind, 40F is approx. 500'.
Landing roll, no wind, 40F is approx. 400'.
I have had take offs and landing rolls of less than 200' with a 15 MPH head wind. The -12 certainly wants to fly.
What is remarkable about this plane (to me anyway) is the controllability at low speeds. I have been practicing to get my landings "on the numbers" spot on every time and realized I need to slow this plane down in the pattern, typical of RV's. I now start on down wind about 75MPH 1/2 flaps, base is 65 full flaps, final is 60 FF, and over the fence at around 55-58 MPH. This give me plenty of remaining lift for a safe and controllable flair & touchdown on the mains only. The flapperons, stabilator, & rudder all still have exceptional authority at these speeds.
Yesterday, I took my first passenger up and the numbers were as advertized for stalls (48 MPH) performance at near gross. We notice the plane was a little bouncey due to afternoon thermals, but then we got in his -9a and felt about the same bounce, but the -9a seemed to cut though the thermals a tad better. The -12 is a much lighter plane and it acts like it in turbulance, nothing bad, just a light plane. The roll rate is faster in the -12 due to the large area of flapperons, both planes are a joy to fly.
The RV-12 is a simple, and safe airplane to fly. Quite honestly, I cannot think of anything I would change about the flying characteristics, or flight controls, except maybe adding roll trim. Van's has "hit the nail on the head" with the RV-12 entry into the E-LSA market.
If anyone has any other specific questions feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Build on!
tomkk
Well Known Member
I've been flying mine since June and have almost 100 hrs on it. At 5000-7000 feet, I get 118 kts at 5300 RPM without wheel fairings and 124 kts with wheel fairings. I also have leg and intersection fairings but they don't seem to have a lot of effect on speed. The intersection fairings do reduce the draft that comes in from behind the seats. Here in Florida that draft is welcome but we were up in D.C. in November where the ground temp was 25 F and 5 F at altitude - that draft was NOT welcome then.
I use 3600 RPM downwind, that gives me about 70 kts. I fly the rest of the pattern power off at 65 kts base and 60 kts final. The airplane doesn't want to come out of the sky and I often find myself slipping on final to lose altitude. If you're faster than that you'll float forever but I often manage to make the first turnoff at about 800' from the numbers without heavy braking if I fly the numbers.
I plan on 5 GPH chock to chock and that has been working out real well.
re. bubble canopy, I have a Cleveland shade that does wonders to deal with that. Easy to install, easy to use.
I guess due to it's light weight, it does seem more sensitive to rough air that other aircraft I've flown. Not enough to bother me in the slightest but the wife REALLY wants me to fly above the clouds ...
VERY happy with the RV-12. It was a fun build, great fun to fly and pretty tough to beat the operating costs.
I use 3600 RPM downwind, that gives me about 70 kts. I fly the rest of the pattern power off at 65 kts base and 60 kts final. The airplane doesn't want to come out of the sky and I often find myself slipping on final to lose altitude. If you're faster than that you'll float forever but I often manage to make the first turnoff at about 800' from the numbers without heavy braking if I fly the numbers.
I plan on 5 GPH chock to chock and that has been working out real well.
re. bubble canopy, I have a Cleveland shade that does wonders to deal with that. Easy to install, easy to use.
I guess due to it's light weight, it does seem more sensitive to rough air that other aircraft I've flown. Not enough to bother me in the slightest but the wife REALLY wants me to fly above the clouds ...
VERY happy with the RV-12. It was a fun build, great fun to fly and pretty tough to beat the operating costs.
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PilotBrent
Well Known Member
MAP is another option
I was taught to target 18" manifold pressure on downwind to reach the optimal airspeed...poweroff when abeam the numbers and stick with that until landing...
I think the propeller pitch differences between aircraft probably affect what you should target for downwind.
I was taught to target 18" manifold pressure on downwind to reach the optimal airspeed...poweroff when abeam the numbers and stick with that until landing...
I think the propeller pitch differences between aircraft probably affect what you should target for downwind.
Piper J3
Well Known Member
I’m a newly minted RV-12 pilot with a fair amount of flying experience but only 30 hours so far in this machine. I’ve been experimenting with different landing techniques and have settled with the following…
I hold cruise power in level flight on downwind and reduce power to idle abeam the numbers. Power can be reduced quickly without fear of shock cooling – Rotax 912 has liquid cooled cylinder heads. I hold level attitude and let speed decay until white arc. At white arc I dump full flap and then trim hands-off for 62 mph (54knots) and hold that speed throughout the entire approach. Altitude is adjusted with slight addition of power as needed. Speed is reduced over the fence another 5 mph (4 knots) with plenty of energy remaining to bleed off in the flair. I use the above speeds with light or heavy airframe.
I hold cruise power in level flight on downwind and reduce power to idle abeam the numbers. Power can be reduced quickly without fear of shock cooling – Rotax 912 has liquid cooled cylinder heads. I hold level attitude and let speed decay until white arc. At white arc I dump full flap and then trim hands-off for 62 mph (54knots) and hold that speed throughout the entire approach. Altitude is adjusted with slight addition of power as needed. Speed is reduced over the fence another 5 mph (4 knots) with plenty of energy remaining to bleed off in the flair. I use the above speeds with light or heavy airframe.
Jetguy
Well Known Member
Might I suggest you get some dual with a local Flight Instructor on your first few flights.
Your insurance may require this. There are many flying techniques you can use in the traffic pattern to land the RV12. All would lead to crossing the runway threshold at Idle power at 55-60 knots on a light winds day at sea level. Any faster than that will cause you to float down the runway while flaring. If landing at max GW, high density altitudes, in high winds, you may add 5 kts to that speed. Depending on your past flying experience using Manifold Pressure is a more precise way to set power in the air. If you have never flown a plane that has MP it may take some getting use to. The following suggestion is not written in stone but what I suggest. Downwind leg, when entering on the 45 reduce power to 18"MP and slow to 65 kts and deploy Half flaps and trim as require. If you slow to early before reaching the runway end abeam point then after reaching 65kts increase power to approx. 21"MP to maintain 65 kts. Abeam the end of the runway power back to idle (approx. 2200RPM) control speed with pitch and start your descent to landing.
Base Leg, power Idle, deploy full flaps, 65 kts
Final Approach, power Idle, slow speed to 55-60 kts
Good luck and have fun. Its a great airplane.
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f1rocket
Well Known Member
I think you'll find that if you drop your approach speed to 55 KTS, you'll find it much easier to control the float. 60 KTS is almost 1.6 the stall speed.
I enter downwind, pull the throttle to idle, drop all the flaps as soon as the airspeed lets me, get it down to 55 KTS and just fly the rest of the pattern at that. I rarely need more throttle.
I live on a 2100' runway and the turnoff is right at 1050' and I easily hit it nearly every time. If it's gusting, I'll hold the airspeed between 55 and 60 just to give me a little margin, but I'll probably miss the turnoff.
Just my experience.
I enter downwind, pull the throttle to idle, drop all the flaps as soon as the airspeed lets me, get it down to 55 KTS and just fly the rest of the pattern at that. I rarely need more throttle.
I live on a 2100' runway and the turnoff is right at 1050' and I easily hit it nearly every time. If it's gusting, I'll hold the airspeed between 55 and 60 just to give me a little margin, but I'll probably miss the turnoff.
Just my experience.
tomkk
Well Known Member
Yeah, that's better. I actually fly final at 60 kts and slow to 55 over the fence. I find 55 a bit slow on final in the rough air we often have here. I have my AOA configured so it sounds very slowly at my 60 kt final approach speed with full flaps. It speeds up a bit as I slow over the fence and sounds rapidly as I touch down. That AOA setting also sounds very slowly at my 65 kt, 1/2 flaps base leg speed. Basically gives me aural cues on base and final. If I get too slow on either, or in the base-final turn, I'll get a rapid sound at a place I don't normally have one.
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DaleB
Well Known Member
If you can find one with RV-12 time. If you can't, see if you can find a local 12 flyer to get you (or better yet the CFI) up to speed. The 12 takes a little adjustment if you're used to landing typical Cessnas and Pipers. The biggest adjustment for me has been getting used to just how slowly everything happens on base and final. I got used to coming across the fence at 65 knots, which works great in the 12... if you want to make the turnoff at the other end of the 5000' runway.Might I suggest you get some dual with a local Flight Instructor on your first few flights.
I'm still very much learning how to land the 12 well. Adding AOA has helped a lot on base and final. I won't be winning any spot landing contests soon but at least I'm putting it down smoothly and usually make the first turnoff without brakes.
I aim for 75 knots on downwind. Abeam the numbers I pull the throttle to idle and drop in one notch of flaps. Trim for 65 knots. I want to hear the 500' call about halfway through my base leg. I turn final, trim for 60 and drop the flaps to the second notch if needed. Once over the fence I'll slow to 55-ish, but by then I'm really not watching speed - it's more how it looks and hearing the AOA start to nag. There's probably a better way to do it, I just need to keep working on it.
PilotBrent
Well Known Member
AOA should be standard equipment
I'm amazed how much slower I am comfortable flying, knowing the AOA is watching over me. Never move my eyes off the runway and just listen to the beeps guide me in. In all seriousness, its the one thing that I think should be standard equipment on all aircraft going forward.
I'm amazed how much slower I am comfortable flying, knowing the AOA is watching over me. Never move my eyes off the runway and just listen to the beeps guide me in. In all seriousness, its the one thing that I think should be standard equipment on all aircraft going forward.
