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  #11  
Old 11-06-2019, 10:02 PM
alcladrv alcladrv is offline
 
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One way big corporations or owners with deep pockets hide the aircraft information data is to have a third party, like a bank, actually own the aircraft and then enter into a lease agreement for the exclusive use of the aircraft to operate it.

There is what I would call a parallel system to the FAA radar system that identifies aircraft by receiving Mode S data and markets the information to FBOs and others. It is run by a company called Passur. Check out Passur.com for more info. The key element here is that Passur collects the data with there own equipment independent from the FAA. From what I learned from one of their reps some years back, they had been at it for over 10 years at that time. They're still going strong from what I can tell. Even when aircraft were in the BARR program, FBOs, subscribers like Signature, always knew who was inbound to an airport to park at their ramp or a competitors.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2019, 11:27 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcladrv View Post
There is what I would call a parallel system to the FAA radar system that identifies aircraft by receiving Mode S data and markets the information to FBOs and others. It is run by a company called Passur. Check out Passur.com for more info. The key element here is that Passur collects the data with there own equipment independent from the FAA. From what I learned from one of their reps some years back, they had been at it for over 10 years at that time. They're still going strong from what I can tell. Even when aircraft were in the BARR program, FBOs, subscribers like Signature, always knew who was inbound to an airport to park at their ramp or a competitors.
Products such as this, go away or become diminished with the measures proposed here. The FAA will allow you to keep your ICAO number private (today it is public record). Then tools such as the one you describe, can no longer associate your squawk detail with an aircraft owner.

Larry
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2019, 05:46 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Default FAA Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) Program

Here are some details on the new ADS-B privacy program from the FAA's website, including an FAQ on the process:

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/privacy/

I hope the FAA does not allow anyone to monetize the third-party call signs in Phase 2, like third parties do now for special N-Numbers!:
"Third-party call signs are available from a "Third Party Call Sign Provider", a commercial service which has a security agreement with FAA."
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Last edited by RV8JD : 11-08-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-08-2019, 07:38 PM
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Thermos Thermos is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD View Post
I hope the FAA does not allow anyone to monetize the third-party call signs in Phase 2, like third parties do now for special N-Numbers!
I can't find anything when I google "third party callsign." Anybody else have luck with that?

But apparently you *can* buy your own callsign from ICAO for the bargain price of $4,000...

ds
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:06 AM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermos View Post
I can't find anything when I google "third party callsign." Anybody else have luck with that?

But apparently you *can* buy your own callsign from ICAO for the bargain price of $4,000...

ds
google "dot com call sign" (one example)

Skylor
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:50 AM
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Thermos Thermos is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylor View Post
google "dot com call sign"
Got it, thanks! Who knew?

Not me, apparently...
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2019, 07:25 AM
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rmartingt rmartingt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
The solution is on the back-end, not the front, but it's probably too late for this: stop publishing in the open all the information about a plane's ownership, address, etc., or the pilot's personal information. Think of this data like auto licenses and license plates...I can set up all sorts of cameras and install license plate ID software, but if all I get is a plate number, and I can't get to the owner info (and from there to owner's address, etc.), it's no good to me.
Precisely.

I asked the FAA about this years ago. Their complete response, misspelling and all, was "Are databases are public for safety."

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  #18  
Old 11-09-2019, 03:54 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
The solution is on the back-end, not the front, but it's probably too late for this: stop publishing in the open all the information about a plane's ownership, address, etc., or the pilot's personal information. Think of this data like auto licenses and license plates...I can set up all sorts of cameras and install license plate ID software, but if all I get is a plate number, and I can't get to the owner info (and from there to owner's address, etc.), it's no good to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartingt View Post
Precisely.
That solution would be fine for individuals like us, but not for businesses and corporations that want to keep their airplane's movements secret for security, business, and competitive reasons. Some businesses keep track of competitors N-Numbers and track them.

Also, from the NBAA:
"Operators worry that bad actors could use this information to track government and business leaders and commit acts of corporate espionage, extortion or terrorism."
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RV-8, 620 Tach Hours
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- Out with the Old, In with the New
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:22 PM
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nomocom nomocom is offline
 
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Default ICAO and N number

The ASDI subscribers (those getting the FAA ads-b data) have reason to respect the privacy of those who have requested blocking. But, when you look at ADSB exchange, they have a network of crowdsourced ADS-B feed, so they do not rely on FAA feeds. The story they tell, they don't see reasons to suppress any of it. It is out there on the airwaves, no encryption at all, so they are just harvesting and sharing. The net result is, ASDI blocking has worked with Flightaware, but it wouldn't with adsbexchange.

The rotating ICAO code should change all that. A temporary code (as long as it doesn't cause the N number to correctly populate), will give anonymity. Someone could hang around airports with a ADS-B receiver and binocs- link the ICAO's to N numbers, but that is a lot of work and the link would only be good for a month or so.

Step in the right direction. Maybe I should have done ES.
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:46 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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The reality is that the technology genie is out of the bottle on this one, and it's going to be **** near impossible to put it back. You've been legislated to install systems that have unique identifiers built into an open-air broadcast stream. Calls to ATC are also done on open-air broadcasts. Correlating ATC calls to your unique identifiers probably isn't a difficult task for some combination of voice recognition and other software.
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