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Quick Vs Slow build fuselage......I cant decide

P

PiperRV10

I'm New Here
VAF,
Hello all, I have been lurking on the site for years and have finally registered. I have just purchased some complete wings and finished up my Tail kit, looking at ordering the fuselage.

I have done the math and after shipping and everything the total cost for my QB fuselage is $8690 +the kit.

~Is it worth it? How much time did it take the standard builders to make it to the QB stage? I am a first time builder, have enjoyed building however I do want to get in the air faster. I really want to go QB for time savings, but I need to get a good feel for HOW MUCH time is almost 9k going to save me?


I have read all the threads on the topic and well I am still asking the question.....

how is the quality of the QB now ?

Any QB builders wish they went Slow?

any Slow who wish for fast?


I think you all know the trouble I am having with this decision so ANY insight would be greatly appreciated .

I called the factory but they don't have a good "hours" count on the QB vs slow on the fuse alone, only wings and fuse.


thanks





Brian Orfalls
 
I thought the fuselage kit was the most interesting and rewarding part of the whole process. Legacy build allows much more flexibility in interior paint, powder coating wear areas, insulation, and wiring prep, etc. I did A/C which would have been much more challenging with a QB.
 
If you have the money and want to get into the air as quickly as possible, I recommend the quick build option. I wanted to go the quick build route for the fuselage but was forced into the slow build because of a shortage of funds. I don't regret the slow build but would rather be flying by now. (I've been working on and off on my project for 10 years now and figure another 2 - 4 until I'm flying...maybe 6! :eek: )

Good luck with your decision.
 
Qb

I did the QB wings and fuse. Overall, very happy with build quality. I will say that I did find some build errors. Nothing major...a couple of rivets that were supposed to be an426 but were an470. Easily replaced. I did not have any issues with wiring or such as the baggage area floors were just temporarily pop riveted in place. The only place I was unable to access was the front seat under floor area. After reading the forums about removing these pieces to add insulation, I decided that the effort was not worth the gain. Turns out you can use the expanding fireproof foam if you want. There are lightening holes accessible in each bay. The amount of time saved on the fuse is substantial. Look at the forward fuse sections in the plans.

Very happy about doing the QB kits...
 
I did the slow build and would do it that way again, but I really enjoy smashing rivets and seeing the structure come together. I just checked my log, I spent ten months on the fuselage kit, out of a 6-1/2 year build. So, for me, going quick build would not have saved a significant amount of time. But, I worked hard on that kit, and took breaks at other points in the build.

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FYI The current quick build delivery time is nearly six months. If you have other work to do while waiting and can justify the cost, go for it. I did.
 
Brian,

Thanks for asking that question. I am in a similar situation and am very curious to hear the different responses. I'm just finishing up my tail cone now and ordered the QB wings in March which is scheduled to arrive in July. It took me about a year to complete my empennage kit with a baby being born right in the middle. I'm thinking quick build for me but I'm curious how many hours of work that will save me. Most people that I talk to say the most time consuming part is all of the fiberglass work which you do not avoid with the QB kit. While I know times vary with experience, if anyone can give me an approximate of hours spent to get the fuse to quick build stage that would be much appreciated. Looks like my tail kit will end up taking me around 250-275 hrs to complete so I'm probably a fairly slow builder. Thats just tools in hand and doesn't count the head scratching and countless hours spent reading all of your posts. Thanks for your help in my upcoming decision...

Dave
 
Me 2

I'm on the fence too
With work and life
I am able to put in 7-10 hours a week maybe more maybe less
So 250-300 hours is almost a year off the build at my current speed...

The money is a factor but I a also desperately getting that Rv itch, and my wife and I took the Rv-10 ride in aurora recently and now she is excited again for the plane.... So time or money.....


So I am with Brian and Dave on soliciting opinions....

Seems like the majority of folks I have talked to say go slow...

Joe
 
Brian.
Lots great advice here!
We went quick build but looking back I enjoyed the build so much if I did it over I probably would go slow build. That being said, the moment I set time line goals to complete a certain phase or section is when I did not enjoy the build as much...it truly is a journey that needs to set its own pace and you will thoroughly enjoy the project. My advise is to pace at your comfort level and don't set goals that are unrealistic to your capabilities in time or money. The time will pass much faster than you can imagine. How we paced ourself? No time log and worked on it virtually every spare moment...large percentage of build was done from 6pm till midnight and full weekends.It becomes somewhat of a addiction:) Good luck! It is a incredible aircraft!
 
QB vs Slow

Oh, one other thing...remember family first.

If you spend every spare minute working on the kit, yes , you will finish faster but you may find that you lost something along the way...
 
I don't know if it is still on Vans website, but when I started building 8 years ago, they had a page where they divided the cost of the QB kits by the number of hours that they estimated it would take the average first time builder to get to QB completion. IIRC to came out to $8-9 per hour. As a repeat offender, it still took me 2500 hours to finish a QB. I really enjoy building, but by the time I finished I was very happy to have gone QB.

Like many things, it is just time vrs. money
 
rocketman1988 said:
Oh, one other thing...remember family first.

If you spend every spare minute working on the kit, yes , you will finish faster but you may find that you lost something along the way...
Click to expand...

Great point!! I was very fortunate to have full support of my family and their help!! It is very important they are on board with your dreams.
77f4af44-55ee-4e5a-9996-776b1c9350f6_zps5igogxea.jpg

141128f6-ab9f-44c1-ad63-aaa340621d5e_zpsasoiz4r0.jpg
 
A member of the QB contingent here, both the wings and fuselage of a -9A. I wanted to experience the build, yet have a flying airplane in about two years, which would have been an impossibility with the standard kit. Believe me, you get PLENTY of experience with riveting, fabricating brackets, etc. with the QBs. I was fortunate to have the extra money on hand to go this route, and wouldn't hesitate for a femtosecond to do it again.

Sure, we have to suffer for our art here, but there are so many operations in the build that are mind-numbingly repetitive (the three Ds--drill, deburr, dimple), and the QBs cut down on these significantly.

Jack--priceless expression on you daughter's face in that second pic!
 
I did the slow build and would do it again. I was fortunate to have a job which allowed me 30 hours a week to work on it and finished in 26 months. I really enjoyed the process.
 
Slow-Build

I did the slow-build fuse. I would say the quick-build fuse would have got me into the air a year early. But building the fuse was interesting and I learned a lot. Plus I saved the money. So, for me, the slow-build was the way to go. Unless you are just in a hurry to get into the air, I would recommend the slow build. But if you are in a big hurry, why not just buy a used RV? It's a buyers market right now. You can probably buy one for the same money you will spend in building.
 
Time

First, I built a 7 not a 10. My decision to go with a quick build kit was time. I was willing to sacrifice $$ to save time. As it turned out, through my own misunderstanding, I had to wait five months for the quickbuild kit. In that time, I could have built two fuselages (maybe) and saved a whole LOT of MONEY. So, if you decide to go the quick build route in order to save time make sure you call Vans and find out exactly when the fuse will be delivered to your residence.
 
The first and most important factor is build vs. fly. If you want to fly, it is worth the money for the quick build kit. Only you can decide which is more important. I'm about 70/30 build/fly, so it was a 'no-brainer' to slow build both times.

Other, lesser factors may include budget and equipment. If you want in the air fast, you need to have the money pretty much available. Otherwise you can spread the finances out. My RV-6A took 14 years to finish largely because it took that long to gather the money for engine and avionics; until then I was in no hurry to finish the airframe. For the -10, the finances weren't the problem but I would hate to try to install the air conditioning, oxygen system, etc. into a quick build fuselage; I did a lot of modifications as I built that would have been much more difficult if the structure was not simply clecoed together. But if you are not getting all fancy like that, then it's not such an obstacle.

In the end, the answer varies and only you can decide what is best for you. I don't think Van's is suffering in sales along either route, so both ways are obviously working for members of the building community.
 
Where can you find information detailing the steps that are completed in the QB fuselage. I do want to install built-in oxygen but no A/C. I want to see if I can still swing it with the QB Fuse.
 
QB Sections

I could not find any specific QB plans. You need to go through the sections and verify everything that was done. It does not take as long as you would think, however, as I stated earlier, there were a few minor issues.

My fuse came with the major construction of the forward fuse pretty much done. The interior panels were attached and the baggage area floor was temporarily pop riveted in place. The forward upper fuse was pretty much complete and temporarily pop riveted to the forward fuse.

I removed all of the interior panels and baggage floors, and removed the upper forward fuse. The only floors that did not get removed were the forward ones. After reading about doing this in these forums, I decided that the reward for removing them (insulation) was not worth the effort. As it turns out, if you want to use the expanding fireproof foam to fill the cavities in this area, there is lightening hole access to each bay.

From what I remember, the sections that are complete, or mostly complete, in the QB fuse are: 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31.

The QB wings sections are: 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 21, 22.
 
ERushing said:
Where can you find information detailing the steps that are completed in the QB fuselage. I do want to install built-in oxygen but no A/C. I want to see if I can still swing it with the QB Fuse.
Click to expand...

Call Van's for the details........

As to installing O2 later, no problem. Worse case is you'll have to take the rear seat pans out.

I'll be installing in a flying RV-10 this summer. I have access to everything I need. Although I do have plenty of space in my pre-run conduits and overhead console.
 
aturner said:
I did the slow build and would do it that way again, but I really enjoy smashing rivets and seeing the structure come together. I just checked my log, I spent ten months on the fuselage kit, out of a 6-1/2 year build. So, for me, going quick build would not have saved a significant amount of time. But, I worked hard on that kit, and took breaks at other points in the build.

DSC_3585_zps27c1ae56.jpg
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Click to expand...

Andy your plane is crawlin with critters.. I'd send it back.. =p (Or put him to work.. )
 
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