Engine Saver

Attended Mike Bush?s webinar the other night and he mentioned this little gizmo. My new Superior engine was pickled a year ago with desiccator plugs, but I though this would add an additional layer of protection since first start probably won?t come till later this year. Will also be useful for those less active times.

Hi Tom,

There's been a bid of recent discussion about this in a similar thread that you might find helpful:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=170710

Cheers,
Tom.

Black Max

Just curious, did he mention this one?

http://www.flyingsafer.com/p-n-2065.html

Seems to be a little electric air dryer - I've got one on order. It avoids having to dry the beads from time to time.

Not sure I like the idea of cooling the air. How do they avoid cooling the entire engine case, causing moisture to condense on the outside and promoting corrosion?

The Black Max works very well here in humid Florida. It has the advantage of not requiring desiccant maintenance. I?ve used a Tanis dehydrator (no longer in production, unfortunately) for 10 years in Florida in a corrosive (sea shore) environment as well with great results. I recall a conversation with the Tanis engineers when I was overhauling one of their systems for a friend and he indicated that most of the benefit was achieved by simply moving the air through the engine. The old Tanis systems use a ?high volume low pressure? air pump; and you could also purchase just the pump sans desiccant when they were in production. I use the dehydrator any time the engine is going to be idle for more than 7 days. The old Tanis system keeps the relative humidity in my engine in the single or low 2 digits.

Cheers,

Vac

Timberwolf said:

Not sure I like the idea of cooling the air. How do they avoid cooling the entire engine case, causing moisture to condense on the outside and promoting corrosion?

Click to expand...

Dehumidifiers provide warm dry air. Cooling the air is an intermediate step used to the extract the moisture. This dry air is rewarmed by the waste heat of the compressor or thermoelectric device.

I use a dehumidifier on my boat to prevent condensation. It puts out warm exhaust air and keeps the windows condensation free. The water runs out a hose into a sink drain.

Some people think that just running a heater (or a light bulb) will do the same, but it actually makes the condensation worse. You have to get rid of the water in the air.

V

tgmillso said:

Hi Tom,

There's been a bid of recent discussion about this in a similar thread that you might find helpful:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=170710

Cheers,
Tom.

Click to expand...

Hi Tom, unless I didn't read down far enough into the thread you posted, that was about engine heaters. This is not a heater, it's a desiccator. Right now I'm recharging my desiccator plugs about every two weeks. It this thing does what it's supposed to do, I should see a marked reduction in the desiccator plug recharging interval.

Vac said:

The Black Max works very well here in humid Florida. It has the advantage of not requiring desiccant maintenance. I?ve used a Tanis dehydrator (no longer in production, unfortunately) for 10 years in Florida in a corrosive (sea shore) environment as well with great results. I recall a conversation with the Tanis engineers when I was overhauling one of their systems for a friend and he indicated that most of the benefit was achieved by simply moving the air through the engine. The old Tanis systems use a ?high volume low pressure? air pump; and you could also purchase just the pump sans desiccant when they were in production. I use the dehydrator any time the engine is going to be idle for more than 7 days. The old Tanis system keeps the relative humidity in my engine in the single or low 2 digits.

Cheers,

Vac

Click to expand...

Yes, Mike mentioned the Black Max by name. The advantage being you don't have to recharge the desiccant.

Timberwolf said:

Not sure I like the idea of cooling the air. How do they avoid cooling the entire engine case, causing moisture to condense on the outside and promoting corrosion?

Click to expand...

The units are designed to be able to be used with no delay after shut down. The air coming into the engine is less than 1 PSI, and I have no concerns that it will cool down the engine any faster than it would otherwise. Nevertheless, it's pumping dry air into the entire engine which should encourage any moisture to evaporate and exit the exhaust and intake.

In my case, my engine is pickled, and not yet in use, so I'm using it as extra insurance that all will be well when I go to fire her up... soon I hope

vlittle said:

Dehumidifiers provide warm dry air. Cooling the air is an intermediate step used to the extract the moisture. This dry air is rewarmed by the waste heat of the compressor or thermoelectric device.

I use a dehumidifier on my boat to prevent condensation. It puts out warm exhaust air and keeps the windows condensation free. The water runs out a hose into a sink drain.

Some people think that just running a heater (or a light bulb) will do the same, but it actually makes the condensation worse. You have to get rid of the water in the air.

V

Click to expand...

Vern,

Please read the above description for the Blackmax unit. It specifically states: A microprocessor is used to control the units operation. On power up, the thermoelectric unit is turned on, and the unit enters a cool down mode. Once the condenser has cooled down, (about 4 min's ) the pump is turned on and air flows through the condenser where it is cooled and its dew point is lowered. The dry air then passes through the engine breather tube and into the engine crankcase. Nowhere can I find that the air is reheated by the other side of the Peltier unit.

Additionally, I do partially agree with just running a heater. However, I live not far from Vac and by using a goldenrod heater (typically used in gun safes) in my tool box, I am able to prevent the moisture in the air from condensing on my tools and corrosion has since not been an issue. The key is to ensure everything in that area is heated up in order to prevent the condensation and it isn't very practical to do such with an aircraft engine.

Av8torTom- I think you're misinterpreting what I mean by cooling air. Not that you are cooling down the engine after running it, but that the blackmax states on their site the temp of the air is lowered below freezing. If I were to pump such air through a metal tube in Florida in the summer, the whole outside of that tube would be drenched from condensation on the outside. What prevents the same thing from happening on the engine?


Just trying to clarify from someone that actually has one of these units. I've looked into them a few times especially down here in winter after seeing the planes just drenched in condensation, while sitting in the hangar. The packs of damp rid have done enough to keep the insides dry and I fly often enough to keep everything lubed, but would consider some sort of system if they were sitting for long periods of time.

Home brew engine dryer

Several good ideas here. Thoughts?
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=157922

I like the Black Max, just not the price.

Av8torTom said:

Yes, Mike mentioned the Black Max by name. The advantage being you don't have to recharge the desiccant.

Click to expand...

I have used a desiccant based dryer (DIY) for 4 years on my engine. After first flight it became another maintenance item. Not a lot, but something that can not be ignored.

I have looked at the Black Max working principles and like the idea of condensing the humidity from the crankcase air. It also would not be limited to recirculated air like the desiccant type. If the chilled surface is maintained below freezing (Like BlackMax) then a very dry air source is provided, unlimited by the amount of condensate.

Mr. Picky: - recirculation is not required, but the much more frequent regeneration demands it.

Recirculation

wirejock said:

Several good ideas here. Thoughts?
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=157922

Click to expand...

Several people mentioned recycling the air. While that makes sense, I'm not sure how you would do that practically. Right now I have the dried air pumping into the oil breather tube. From there it enters the crankcase, then into each cylinder. There the air moves past the piston ring gaps into the combustion chambers. Next if open it exits through either an intake valve or an exhaust valve. If it's an intake valve then it exits my carburettor. If it's an exhaust valve then obviously out the exhaust. Since it's not really practical to know whether the cylinder is on an intake, compression or exhaust stroke, you would have to collect the air from each exhaust and the carburettor for complete recycling back to the pump.

I'll have to wait and see how long it takes for the pump's desiccant to require recharging. It's been about 2 weeks since I hooked the drier to my engine, and the desiccant plugs are still a deep blue.

Below freezing?

BillL said:

I have used a desiccant based dryer (DIY) for 4 years on my engine. After first flight it became another maintenance item. Not a lot, but something that can not be ignored.

I have looked at the Black Max working principles and like the idea of condensing the humidity from the crankcase air. It also would not be limited to recirculated air like the desiccant type. If the chilled surface is maintained below freezing (Like BlackMax) then a very dry air source is provided, unlimited by the amount of condensate.

Mr. Picky: - recirculation is not required, but the much more frequent regeneration demands it.

Click to expand...

Someone mentioned that the temp of the Black Max dried air entering the engine is below freezing (confirmed on Black Max website). While the air entering the engine may be bone dry, what's to keep the chilled engine from causing water to condense on the outside of the engine? I don't think I'd like that either. Or am I missing something?

Tom, I had a whole post that brought up that fact but for some reason a moderator deleted it. Hopefully yours gets an answer from an actual black max user

Strange

Timberwolf said:

Tom, I had a whole post that brought up that fact but for some reason a moderator deleted it. Hopefully yours gets an answer from an actual black max user

Click to expand...

Yes, I was referring to your post. No idea why it would have been deleted?!?

Timberwolf said:

Tom, I had a whole post that brought up that fact but for some reason a moderator deleted it. Hopefully yours gets an answer from an actual black max user

Click to expand...

Shane wasn?t that post #4 you mentioned? I see it there.

I wonder about outside condensation concerns. Much of the outside is painted.

Here is what I posted that had been deleted:

vlittle said:

Dehumidifiers provide warm dry air. Cooling the air is an intermediate step used to the extract the moisture. This dry air is rewarmed by the waste heat of the compressor or thermoelectric device.

I use a dehumidifier on my boat to prevent condensation. It puts out warm exhaust air and keeps the windows condensation free. The water runs out a hose into a sink drain.

Some people think that just running a heater (or a light bulb) will do the same, but it actually makes the condensation worse. You have to get rid of the water in the air.

V

Click to expand...

Vern,

Please read the above description for the Blackmax unit. It specifically states: A microprocessor is used to control the units operation. On power up, the thermoelectric unit is turned on, and the unit enters a cool down mode. Once the condenser has cooled down, (about 4 min's ) the pump is turned on and air flows through the condenser where it is cooled and its dew point is lowered. The dry air then passes through the engine breather tube and into the engine crankcase. Nowhere can I find that the air is reheated by the other side of the Peltier unit.

Additionally, I do partially agree with just running a heater. However, I live not far from Vac and by using a goldenrod heater (typically used in gun safes) in my tool box, I am able to prevent the moisture in the air from condensing on my tools and corrosion has since not been an issue. The key is to ensure everything in that area is heated up in order to prevent the condensation and it isn't very practical to do such with an aircraft engine.

Av8torTom- I think you're misinterpreting what I mean by cooling air. Not that you are cooling down the engine after running it, but that the blackmax states on their site the temp of the air is lowered below freezing. If I were to pump such air through a metal tube in Florida in the summer, the whole outside of that tube would be drenched from condensation on the outside. What prevents the same thing from happening on the engine?


Just trying to clarify from someone that actually has one of these units. I've looked into them a few times especially down here in winter after seeing the planes just drenched in condensation, while sitting in the hangar. The packs of damp rid have done enough to keep the insides dry and I fly often enough to keep everything lubed, but would consider some sort of system if they were sitting for long periods of time.

Engine Saver Update

It's been exactly 2 months since I connected my Engine Saver to my engine. I have yet to have to recharge the desiccant in the Engine Saver, nor have I had to recharge the spark plug desiccants. Prior to using the Engine Saver I had to recharge the spark plug desiccant once a week - and that was in the colder months when the humidity was low. Past month or so here humidity has been in the 80ies.

Good update

Av8torTom said:

It's been exactly 2 months since I connected my Engine Saver to my engine. I have yet to have to recharge the desiccant in the Engine Saver, nor have I had to recharge the spark plug desiccants. Prior to using the Engine Saver I had to recharge the spark plug desiccant once a week - and that was in the colder months when the humidity was low. Past month or so here humidity has been in the 80ies.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the update, Tom. Looks like a good investment.