Least Expensive IFR/ADS-B upgrade

Hello all,
I'm starting the planning phase of a panel upgrade, with the goal of being IFR and ADS-B legal for the lowest cost.

Current Panel:
MGL Odyssey G2
Garmin 396
MGL V10 Comm
TruTrak backup attitude
Microair T2000 mode-c
analog backup ASI
Sporty's backup comm/vor/ils with mounted antenna

I'm currently thinking uavionix echo uat with GPS and MGLs announced but not yet available VOR/ILS nav radio, I think that would keep my total upgrade under $3,000.

I've done some studying for the IFR written no flight training yet, but one of my questions is a single nav radio doable in the current IFR system? it seems like it would be alright most of the airports I frequent have ILS, I've even heard rumors that I can usually fly direct in my area if I put VFR GPS on board in the remarks of the flight plan. What I don't want to do is go through this upgrade and wish I had bit the bullet on a GPS; but it looks like even the "old" 430's are still around 6 grand, are the "very old" gps worth looking at (300xl or similar)? If I did the "very old" GPS would you still get the nav radio?

open to other suggestions as well.

The last question is the easy one. If you get an "old" gps - that is, one with a TSO 129 (not the newer, TSO 145/146), then you MUST get/have some other form of navigation, which in practice means a VOR. It's the law.

What do you hope to do? Get home? What nav aids are available at your airport? What equipment do they require? If your only goal is to depart IFR but only to get VFR on top, and you are careful to always have a VFR option for cruise/landing, then a VOR receiver is all you need (depending on what's needed for IFR departures at your home airport). But the expensive truth is that more and more airports have only GPS approaches. For real travel by IFR, you (at this time) pretty much have to bite the bullet and get, at a minimum, a used 400W. Not cheap.
Also consider that the minimum equipment in the FARs makes no mention of backups. It's up to you to consider the risk. What will you do if your one nav radio quits? What if your alternator quits? Do you have a back up battery for either of your attitude sources?
There are lots of very serious questions to consider. Everyone has a different comfort level. I'd suggest you get the rating, carefully take some flights under IFR but in good weather, then decide what your needs are.

A follow up.
For taking the ifr practical exam, the test guide says the aircraft has to have "installed" equipment. It's up to the examiner if a Sporty's handheld meets that definition. At this point in time the exam requires 3 different types of approaches. A gps can get you only two, so you still need a conventional nav receiver for the test. Also, you would need to find a VOR approach with no cross-fixes (needing a second receiver). For an ILS you might need a marker beacon (going away fast) or an ADF (!) (going away even faster). At my home airport the outer marker and LOM were eliminated, and new you need a DME for the ILS (!). May just as well buy the GPS.

If you?re not committed to the MGL you could go to a GRT Horizon HXr with their echoUAT and safefly gps. This will allow RNAV approaches, which is more future proof than VOR anyways. GRT says this is designed to conform to the TSO, although it isn?t TSOd. Take that how you will, but you can certainly fly practice approaches with it. It will also give you adsb in and out. I am about to upgrade to this same setup.

Chris

What Chris Johnson said above. GRT is pushing the boundaries constantly. The latest s/w rev has all the IFR approaches in the database (which is free and always will be), so you can fly any one you want, you just cant be IFR when you do it ie it has to be VFR conditions. You can read up on it on their reasoning for doing this on their website.

That said, you have no choice but to get a legal IFR navigator to fly any IFR - you can survive with just VORs, but obviously noone starts this way anymore. 430s are still expensive, and still old. So forget them and go buy a 480 instead. Way better machine, even tho its the father of the 430, its a hidden gem and has a cult following - join the 480yahoo group and read about it. You can get into one for about 4500. Its WAAS so it can feed legal GPS to any UAT you want (ie the Echo)....but the slick way is to buy someones old Navworx-B box for about $200 and you get 2020 compliance on 978 and weather, traffic (still the best **** traffic s/w there is; another cult following) to display on your new bada$$ 12" GRT. Finish your panel with a 327 transponder, cause you dont need anything better. Do the math and you just figured out you saved yourself about 4k - GRT HXR+480+Navworx+327 vs any other combination. And all very robust. Truth in advertising - the navworx box is totally unsupported now. If it craps, c'est la vie. Buy another one - theyre cheap and theres thousand out there on shelves. Garmin has stopped producing 480 parts, but still has a 7yr supply and still fixes them - for the same price as any garmin box. And the AF is still flying them too. The 327 is still supported, and it acts as the control head for the Navworx. With youre new found 4K, go buy the CS -7666 prop w/rebuild hub from Western Prop, and youre ahead of the game for sure. Ask me how I know all this....(ie see sig block). I topped my stack off with an SL30, which is overkill, but I wanted double comm/nav radios for IFR, and used SL30s are not cheap - oh well cant skin every cat. Anyway, just my .02

odens_14 said:

Hello all,
I'm starting the planning phase of a panel upgrade, with the goal of being IFR and ADS-B legal for the lowest cost.

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IFR and low cost are an oxymoron. If you really want to fly IFR you are gonna have to bite the bullet and spend some $$$
Do you really want to be flying around in the soup with the cheapest equipment you can find that your life literally depends on?
Personally I'd ditch the unreliable microair and install a GTX335 for ADS-B.

BobTurner said:

Also, you would need to find a VOR approach with no cross-fixes (needing a second receiver)

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I know many people who did IFR check rides with a single NAV radio. Yes, it's extra workload, but it is doable.

And *gasp* they didn't have a GPS!

Walt said:

Do you really want to be flying around in the soup with the cheapest equipment you can find that your life literally depends on?
Personally I'd ditch the unreliable microair and install a GTX335 for ADS-B.

Click to expand...

I agree with the first statement. But before worrying about non-critical transponders or ADSB, I?d look to a better nav than a non-TSO?d gps and a portable hand held nav/com. I?d look hard at a used SL-30. To my knowledge, still the only nav that lets you track an ILS (or VOR) inbound while simultaneously receiving a VOR cross-fix. (Making the mad frequency flip-flop referenced by the last poster unnecessary).

No VOR

I did my check ride in May in my RV-7a with just a GPS. The Garmin GTN 625. My examiner said 2 precision approaches and one LNAV would be ok. The LPV approaches had a 200 agl minimum. Basically the same as an ILS. I did ask him first before I left the vor out of my plane. I do have multiple gps portable backups that I could make an approach with in an emergency. Also have the Sporty’s radio with ILS.

BobTurner said:

I agree with the first statement. But before worrying about non-critical transponders or ADSB, I?d look to a better nav than a non-TSO?d gps and a portable hand held nav/com. I?d look hard at a used SL-30. To my knowledge, still the only nav that lets you track an ILS (or VOR) inbound while simultaneously receiving a VOR cross-fix. (Making the mad frequency flip-flop referenced by the last poster unnecessary).

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I had an SL-30 in the first RV, still the best NAV/COM out there. It does receive two VOR receivers (or VOR and an ILS) simultaneously - I used a single Dynon D10A to display them (primary VOR in green, secondary VOR in yellow). Any Dynon EFIS will do this.

I note however the follow on Garmin high end GPS/NAV/COMM boxes have this feature disabled. I can only assume they want you to buy a second VOR receiver if you want simutaneous dual VOR or VOR/ILS cross bearing capability.

Carl

Carl

I started along the same route as you.

I upgraded my panel and tried to get away cheap. I had a Val NAV receiver, ILS and glideslope. But it?s really not doable. I finally did as other have said above, and bit the bullet and got a 430W. A 480 would work also. I just couldn?t fit a 480. One you?ve got a Garmin navigator in there, or any other IFR gps navigator for that matter, you are in the real world. Can you do it with just a NAV? Yes, but it?s just not practical. I took my practical test in my RV, and have been practicing for the past year and a half. Still thinking about what else I need to make my setup better. I?ve got a Dynon Skyview, AP, 430W, Val NAV 2000, icom 210, marker beacon, and an audio panel. Thinking of adding a second battery, and more lighting options. I fly at night a lot.

As others have said also, take some lessons, and get the feel for flying IFR, you?ll know a lot better what you want, and what you need.