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  #11  
Old 08-10-2017, 08:50 PM
RhinoDrvr RhinoDrvr is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lemoore (Fresno), CA
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD View Post
Wow...well, that definitely proves it can always be worse.
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  #12  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:06 PM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
Posts: 3,124
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I have sold quite a few planes as well as plenty of other things. For small items, I always consider it sold to the first person who says "I'll take it". Making an offer or asking for more information is not sold. For an airplane, I always require a contract and deposit to consider it sold pending inspection with a limited number of days specified in the contract to at least move to the next step. I seldom mention to interested parties that there is someone else interested because I don't want people to think I am playing games. However, if someone says hey want to come look at it, I will tell them if someone is coming before them (previously scheduled) or after they plan to come if that person has first right of refusal, although I don't give that right without a contract and deposit. If I have a contract, I will tell any interested parties that I have a contract, but that the deal isn't closed. I think it is very bad business to let someone travel to see a plane or project without giving full disclosure.

In the case of the OP, if someone offers a deposit, then that should give them first right for at least a couple of days, even if the deposit is refused, unless the seller says that the first person there with cash gets it. Bad business by the seller, IMHO. He has the right to sell it to someone there with cash, but should have told the OP of that fact when he offered the deposit.

Oh, and when I accept a deposit, it is seldom fully refundable unless there is an airworthiness issue that I did not realize or the deposit is received from a replacement buyer. Otherwise a deposit from a tire kicker gets them first right with no cost to them if they don't show or don't want it.
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Dynamic Prop Balancing, Prebuy Inspections, Condition Inspections, Repairs and Mods, Injector Tuning, Airframe, Engine, Panel Upgrades, Ferrying, etc.
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  #13  
Old 08-10-2017, 09:28 PM
Chkaharyer99 Chkaharyer99 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pilot Hill, CA
Posts: 870
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I wish I read Jesse's post before I embarked on my first Vans aircraft purchase.

My experience was similar to the ops except a few instances where I spent money to get on airlines to go see planes. When I got there they were not even close to how the sellers represented them. But, it was not a total loss because I learned a bunch in the process.

There was a case where a plane that met almost all of my criteria was advertised somewhere other than VAF. Based on talking to the seller and all the info he provided I had a good feeling about it and after coordinating with the seller, I purchased airline tickets to go and see it but not before making an offer for a non-refundable deposit to hold my place.

The seller refused the deposit and the morning I was scheduled to fly out I called him and he advised me it was sold. I should have seen his refusal of a non-refundable offer for deposit as a red flag but I didn't, my bad. I do know now and Jesse and others have reinforced it.

It all worked out very well in the end because I got the plane I wanted for a price I was willing to pay.

With all the past experience I made an offer and gave the owner a $500.00 non-refundable deposit. This was based on two other lookers here on VAF who had seen the plane and communicating to me about their observations.

Through the process I made some friends and got the plane I wanted. One of my friends told me to be patient, not to rush it. His advise was spot on. Thanks Jim!
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:59 AM
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9GT 9GT is online now
 
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Location: Southern Michigan
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Having sold my RV-10 last year and my experience with phone calls, emails, canceled appointments, empty promises, and myself trying to do the right thing by the gentleman style of giving potential buyers first right of refusal, never again. First person that shows up with money and signs a binding offer to purchase gets the plane. No more Mr. Nice Guy. "Show me the money"!
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RV-9A: Under Construction
RV-10: N959RV Completed 12/29/2013 SOLD 08/23/2016

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  #15  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:12 AM
RhinoDrvr RhinoDrvr is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lemoore (Fresno), CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9GT View Post
Having sold my RV-10 last year and my experience with phone calls, emails, canceled appointments, empty promises, and myself trying to do the right thing by the gentleman style of giving potential buyers first right of refusal, never again. First person that shows up with money and signs a binding offer to purchase gets the plane. No more Mr. Nice Guy. "Show me the money"!
How many of those people who no-show'd had offered you a 10% deposit?
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  #16  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:15 AM
tspear tspear is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 126
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I am in the camp, unless agreed to otherwise, first one with acceptable cash offer gets it.
I am blunt about it though; I tell the prospective buyer exactly that. When selling my Aerostar a few years ago, I did have a guy who had to arrange some long distance travel to come and inspect. He put down a non-refundable deposit to hold the plane for a period; other callers at the time were told they were number 2.

Tim
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  #17  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:29 AM
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CubedRoot CubedRoot is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ooltewah, TN.
Posts: 434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoDrvr View Post
How many of those people who no-show'd had offered you a 10% deposit?
A deposit doesn't mean the airplane is sold. If I were selling, and someone offered me a 10% deposit, I would contract it so that the deposit was not 100% refundable. The buyer is paying me in advance for all the extra hassle, as well as paying me for all the potential lost sales because I am "holding" the plane for them. That would be the only way I'd personally take a deposit on something. A buyer is going to pay me *something* for all that time and hassle, even if they end up not buying the airplane.
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  #18  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:04 AM
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Saville Saville is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: KBVY Massachusetts
Posts: 700
Default It can be worse

I don't see any particular problem with the treatment of the OP, but believe me it can get worse:

I was interested in an RV-8 in the Midwest (I'm on the East Coast). Made the phone calls and discussed the airplane. Sounded good. Found a great Pre-Buy inspector in the area and arranged a Pre-Buy.

Pre-Buy occurred. Seemed to be a good airplane. I call and email the seller - I'll buy it at the asking price. Let's make plans for my coming out there - whenever is convenient.

No answer to either.

Next day I call seller.

No answer.

Next day I email to the seller and this time I get an email back saying that he finally discussed the idea of selling the plane with the family and the family did not want to sell the airplane and didn't give him permission to do so.

Well - the guy could have checked with the family FIRST and be sure he could sell the thing before he put it on the market and wasted people's time and money. I wrote back saying just that and gave him my address to send a check back for the money I spent on the Pre-Buy.

Unsurprisingly I never heard from him again. I didn't expect him to send me the cost of the Pre-Buy but I thought I'd give him the chance to do the honorable thing.

He didn't.

I did find a good plane in Texas and the seller was a stand up guy who wouldn't take a down payment. I said I was worried that someone would get to the plane before me (that had happened a few times) and he said if I want the plane it's mine. I did and it was. He was a really good guy and there are sellers out there who are.
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  #19  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:27 AM
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9GT 9GT is online now
 
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Location: Southern Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoDrvr View Post
How many of those people who no-show'd had offered you a 10% deposit?
None. They were all tire kickers full of promises. Never again. If you are a serious buyer and find what you want, you need to stop what you are doing right now and get the deal done. You snooze you lose.
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RV-9A: Under Construction
RV-10: N959RV Completed 12/29/2013 SOLD 08/23/2016

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  #20  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:55 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 3,652
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Ive sold exactly one airplane and I've become very jaded in that experience. It seems that there is a 20:1 ratio of "dreamers" to "buyers". Many weekend plans ruined to accomodate a "serious" buyer who really just wanted a free ride in my airplane. Some lessons learned:

- Talk is cheap - Zero negotiation on price unless you are ready to make a binding financial committment on the spot.

- Show me the money- a deposit to "hold" the airplane is generally Non refundable.

- Time is Money - Your deposit does not buy you "forever" to get your act together.

On the flip side, I've purchased 3 airplanes so far and I was prepared to pay full price on the spot in cash. The leverage this affords the buyer is lost on many people it seems. With so many dreamers and tire kickers out there, even a lowball offer in cash looks pretty good to the frustrated seller. Interstingly, this detail actually caught one Rocket seller off guard... He did not accept a stack of $100 bills, he wanted me to get a cashiers check! This delay cost him the sale, as I had another candidate in mind and he had no problem accepting a paper sack full of cash. Buyers market!
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

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