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  #1  
Old 08-03-2017, 10:58 PM
mdmba mdmba is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: WA
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Default New to me-10..and have lots of questions...

Hello all...recently picked up a -10 and have a few questions...that id love any/all input. Newish pilot, got PPL 13 mths ago, so still have lots to learn.
1. It has a Hartzell BA CS prop. On TO, push prop forward, then 2500 for climb till cruise alt...lets say 7500ft. Then pull back to what?? Buddy told me, BA like to spin, and were computer designed to be at 2500. True/false? Pulling back to 2300 rpm...pro/cons?
2. Cruising at 7500ft now..and MP pushed forward...gets about 21-23 or so, cant really remember exact MP at this alt. So another buddy tells me at cruise alt to pull MP back till you get the first hint of a drop in MP, and leave it there, if full forward, just wasting gas....so what is the best thing to do at 7500 cruise alt, getting set up for XC trip.
3. CH #2 tends to get 'hot' in the climb, gotta keep nose down, only climb at 500fpm and full rich to keep it cool. Any other suggestions?
4. Flying w 2 ppl and no baggage, tends to be nose heavy, only dropping 2 notches of flaps..so i don't run out of elevator....ill add 50lb ballast next trip..any other thoughts?

FYI: IO-540, w EFII system

Thanks in advance:
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:28 PM
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hydroguy2 hydroguy2 is offline
 
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Best way to answer your questions would be 5-10hrs of transition training with Mike Seager or similar RV CFI
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2017, 01:43 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmba View Post
So another buddy tells me at cruise alt to pull MP back till you get the first hint of a drop in MP, and leave it there, if full forward, just wasting gas....so what is the best thing to do at 7500 cruise alt, getting set up for XC trip.
:
The best thing to do is to use the red knob thingy to adjust the mixture to where you want it. (Your friend's advice helps in certain carbureted aircraft, like 182s. Not applicable to a fuel injected -10.)

May I ask, do you have a high performance endorsement? It's required for this airplane.

Please go see Mike S or other RV- experienced cfi. The -10 is a sophisticated airplane, and shouldn't be flown by what buddies tell you.
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2017, 07:16 AM
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rleffler rleffler is online now
 
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I second what Brian and Bob have stated. Please get some transition training and have these discussions with a CFI familiar with RV10s.

With that said, I'll provide a little information.

1. I fly LOP and cruise at 2300 RPM all the time. I may get there 10 or 15 minutes later, but I save a ton of money.

2. Whether its 7500 AGL or MSL, I suspect that the MP will need to be left at full power. You're not wasting fuel at altitude, but then fuel flow isn't directly controlled by MP setting. You engine isn't making full power due to reduced oxygen. You may only be able to maintain 22 or 23 MP or even less if higher. Then you want to set your mixture to the appropriate ROP or LOP setting.

3. Normal. Lower nose when CHTs get hot. You may also want to take a look at your baffling. But as a non-builder, you really need to understand the cause and effect of any change you make before you start making the changes.

4. Many carry some sort of ballast in the back. I did initially, but now I only have about 10lbs in the baggage area most trips. I mostly fly with just two people in front. I've never run out of elevator authority, but then each aircraft may not perform the same depending on a variety of differences.

Mike Seger will take some time to get scheduled. I don't know if Vic Syracuse will be doing any transition training. Otherwise, find an older CFI that is high performance rated. Have them explain the complexities of a CS prop. It may only take a few hours, but it will be time well spent.

I'm not sure what you mean by two notches of flaps. That depends on what you define as your starting point. Many of us keep the flaps at 0 degrees, the raise to -3 degrees in cruise. I seldom use flaps unless I'm going into a short or soft field, or attempting to follow a Cub all the way in from Ripon. If you're using full flaps, you're going to be in for a surprise if you go around. This is something you'll want to experience during RV-10 transition training. If you aren't prepared, it could startle you.
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2017, 07:26 AM
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bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
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Quote:
Many of us keep the flaps at 0 degrees, the raise to -3 degrees in cruise.
You guys in -10's use flaps for cruise? Forgive my question, I'm a low time pilot and have never encountered this. I'm curious, can you elaborate?

Quote:
If you're using full flaps, you're going to be in for a surprise if you go around.
Curious about this as well, what happens?
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2017, 07:28 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Note that the OP said it has an EFII system so it probably doesn't have a " big red knob" for mixture...
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2017, 07:41 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkervaski View Post
You guys in -10's use flaps for cruise? Forgive my question, I'm a low time pilot and have never encountered this. I'm curious, can you elaborate?
Yes, in the reflex positon which is -3deg (ref to the chord line). This is the "full up" position that you will rig during the build so that the ailerons and flaps are together in trail. The 0 deg positon is slightly below the aileron trailing edges and is useful for shortening the takeoff roll.

Quote:
Curious about this as well, what happens?
A very large pitch up motion.
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:15 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmba View Post
1. It has a Hartzell BA CS prop. On TO, push prop forward, then 2500 for climb till cruise alt...lets say 7500ft. Then pull back to what?? Buddy told me, BA like to spin, and were computer designed to be at 2500. True/false? Pulling back to 2300 rpm...pro/cons?
The only hard core limitation would be a published propeller restriction. I note four listings for the RV-10, so you'll need to ID your engine and propeller combination:

http://hartzellprop.com/wp-content/u...000-R60-WA.pdf

Beyond the vibratory realm, there are many combinations of MP, RPM, and mixture to experiment with. It depends on what you wish to achieve. For example, theory says maximum range would be found at the highest acceptable MP, lowest RPM, and LOP. Maximum speed would be found with high MP, high RPM, and best power mixture, roughly 125 ROP. Highest speed for least fuel is probably mixture at peak EGT or slightly leaner, WOT, and RPM to adjust range, at an oxygen altitude.

Quote:
2. So another buddy tells me at cruise alt to pull MP back till you get the first hint of a drop in MP, and leave it there, if full forward, just wasting gas....
Nope. Any drop in MP is pumping loss. With EFII, the little twist knob on your panel controls mixture.

Quote:
3. CH #2 tends to get 'hot' in the climb, gotta keep nose down, only climb at 500fpm and full rich to keep it cool. Any other suggestions?
Dozens. Might want to start with a check of mixture balance, recently described in post 10 here:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit....php?p=1192591

I would only add that many terrific flight instructors are poor at engine management, so make no assumptions.
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Last edited by DanH : 08-04-2017 at 08:19 AM.
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:26 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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A tremendous help in understanding engine management would be to take the APS engine management course out of ADA, Oklahoma. They have an online version as well as a live course. I did both soon after buying a Bonanza - it also has a 6 cylinder fuel injected engine (Continental, but principles are all the same).

Nothing helped me more in understanding all the parameters of engine management. Even something as simple as adjusting full power fuel flow (more important in Continentals as TCM recommends lower values than the APS guys) can make a big difference in cooling in climb. Balancing fuel flow to all cylinders is also very important (look up GAMI spread as a starting point) if you want to run lean of peak - which you will if you take the engine management course.

Engine management course here: https://www.advancedpilot.com/

If you look up John Deakin / GAMI redbox on google you can find tons of information on this topic, but it's not as well organized as the course itself.

FYI - no need to pull power back at altitude. If you learn to run LOP you'll get good efficiency running "WOTLOPSOP" (look it up) per APS training - at 7500 feet you're around 65-70% power max so it's reasonably efficient. If you experiment with prop setting you'll find where the prop is smoothest and you get the best overall performance/efficiency. My Bonanza was happiest at 2500. I never pulled RPM back until established at cruise altitude (also per APS recommendation).
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Last edited by mturnerb : 08-04-2017 at 08:31 AM.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:00 AM
mdmba mdmba is offline
 
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Default more info

thanks so much for some advice thus far. To answer a few questions posted towards me, Yes i did transition training w Mike S..2 times...1 for my RV8 TW and w him for the RV10. I know him well, and i consider him a really good friend, he's even on my cell phone contacts, but I don't want to bug him all the time, so i posed a question for the hive here..(Hi Mike, i know you're reading this...Shout out to you buddy) so yes, i have done training and am have HP endorsement.
2. I got my PPL 13 mths ago and have 400+ hr already, have 150+ hrs in TW RV8...if you want a new adventure, go land an TW-8. Fun times. (200+ in 172, 150+ in Carbon Cub)...yes i fly, but never to embarrassed to ask for questions from the Vans Community.
3. My 'buddies' are both CFI, airline pilots etc, and each have 20,000+ hrs.
4. Has EFII, so no red knob, but same 'sort of' thing, i understand concept.
5. Yes, i have done the go around w full flaps during...get ready to push on stick asap.

Has anyone heard that BA prop likes to be at 2500rpm? Or does my buddy (CFI, flight engineer) tell me bad info? So at alt cruising, rpm can be ?????..what do most guys set rpm at cruise? obvious fuel usage changes

So at cruise alt, So best to keep throttle full forward?

Thanks again for feedback and advice. I love to learn!
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