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  #11  
Old 07-24-2017, 03:57 AM
Hwood Hwood is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 200
Default Cudos

Half of my flying career has been behind a HUD.....and I am convinced it's the optimal cockpit instrument for safety and situational awareness....way to go Greg and GRT!

Now if you could just get us an Apple based OS.....!
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-8 Gone to Texas
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:49 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,309
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This is a specific request to Greg and the GRT team...

Would it be possible for you to post on the GRT web page scans of the cardboard templates which HUDley provides with the unit? Ideally these scans would include a dimensional reference so we can print them out and fabricate our own cardboard templates. This would facilitate installation brainstorming / fit checking for those of us who might not be flying an RV6 and have other fit-related concerns.

In case you can't tell, I'm really excited about the prospect of having a HUD in our airplane!
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:56 AM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGG
Posts: 2,014
Default hudly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
This is a specific request to Greg and the GRT team...

Would it be possible for you to post on the GRT web page scans of the cardboard templates which HUDley provides with the unit? Ideally these scans would include a dimensional reference so we can print them out and fabricate our own cardboard templates. This would facilitate installation brainstorming / fit checking for those of us who might not be flying an RV6 and have other fit-related concerns.

In case you can't tell, I'm really excited about the prospect of having a HUD in our airplane!
There is a lot of good info here, but I can't be sure it's 100% current. Could help. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/h...e-technology#/

https://hudly.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...ions-of-Hudly-
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http://rv8.ch

Last edited by rv8ch : 07-25-2017 at 08:59 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2017, 03:02 PM
painless painless is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peshtigo, Wisconsin
Posts: 662
Default

I saw this unit at OSH. It's amazing. The projection is extremely bright, and I don't doubt Greg at all when he says it does great in sunlight.

I'm hooked!


If you were to tell me 20 years ago when I started building my 6A that I would someday be flying behind a HUD in it I would have told you were crazy.

Wowzers.
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RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI

Last edited by painless : 07-25-2017 at 03:05 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:16 PM
Greg_Toman Greg_Toman is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Caledonia, MI
Posts: 28
Default Hud Planning

When I get back home I will update the HUD manual I created with some details about the size of the projector, and the position of the combiner glass relative to the projector. I can tell you a bit now to get you started.

The projector is probably less than 3" x 3" x 2" tall. It is small enough that it is not really a factor when it comes to its position on the windshield. It does not really block your view enough to be significant in the RV-6. In my RV-10 it looks like it will be even less of a factor. So basically, don't worry too much about this part.

The part that I need to learn more about is how far to place the combiner from the projector. The trade off here seems to be that you get a bigger image when the combiner is further from the projector, and up to a point this seems good. It might make the image distorted if you get too far apart, or maybe not...maybe it makes the positioning of your head more critical. In any event, Hudly says to position combiner 7.3" from the projector. I mistakenly had it too close, it worked, but when I moved it to about 7.5-8" from the projector, I definitely liked it better. The image was bigger, and still very clear, and my head position was not critical.

I am also going to make some EFIS softkey controls for the HUD. I expect that I will end up with a softkey for the HUD that will allow you to turn off all symbology on the HUD. This will actually cause the android app to clear its screen, so the HUD will be displaying a blank screen. (If you turn off the video to the HUDLY, it puts up an image "Please connect your device", which I don't want up there.) I will probably allow you to wire to a discrete input, or an EIS aux input, to turn the symbology on/off with a toggle switch. I expect that some IFR pilots will want the HUD on when IFR, but might want the freedom to easily turn it off once the runway environment is in sight. Personally I would leave it up, but my guess is that some might not. I remember the test pilots at Boeing always asked, "How do I turn it off" when it came to any new automation.

I might also have other controls for the HUD, based on my judgement of what we need. For example, I might have a de-clutter, or maybe two different line width modes. Time will tell. These are candidates for softkey control via the EFIS.

That should get you started.

Thanks
Greg Toman
GRT Avionics/Grand Rapids Technologies, inc.
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2017, 07:14 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,309
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A post at midnight... In the middle of the busiest aviation show on earth. THAT says something about how excited Greg is about this product!

Thanks, Greg, for posting these details. In off-forum discussions I heard a question about "what's being done for that $150 fee, when the Hudly will already mirror the screen of the phone, just have the phone running the GRT app and showing the EFIS display." Your note above goes a long way toward letting us know there's a quite a bit more to this than meets the eye.

Another question for you... Some of us, particularly in the non-RV world, would benefit from having greater distance between the projector and glass. In our Glasair Sportsman, for example, mounting the projector on the glare shield would allow a nearly straight shot to the glass, but when I measured it last night 10" would be far easier to work with than 7-8" between the devices. When I asked the question of Hudly support they indicated this was do-able, provided the raw image being fed to the Hudly wasn't so large that it spilled off the edge of the screen.

From a GRT perspective, would it be possible to provide some "sizing" adjustment of the output image to facilitate the glass being a bit further from the projector?

I like the improvements you're considering, especially the on/off toggle, whether it's on the EFIS or a discrete switch input. Please don't make it solely an EIS input - some of us don't run EIS devices so for us a discrete into the EIS would become a limitation rather than a feature.

From my personal perspective the things I want to see on the HUD, in order of precedence, are:
- altitude airspeed & heading tapes
- horizon line & skid/slip ball
- AOA - with variable scaling to make it more visible in approach mode
- aircraft energy indicator (that funny little thing that tells us where the aircraft is actually going, using its current energy vector)
- winds aloft indicator
- obstacle warnings
- lateral/vertical guidance cues
- master caution (for those using an EIS)
- nav and autopilot modes

Thanks for all the effort you're putting into making an affordable HUD a reality.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:39 AM
Greg_Toman Greg_Toman is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Caledonia, MI
Posts: 28
Default Excited?

Yes, I have to say that I am a bit excited about the HUD. I had to remove the HUD from my airplane to put it in our demo at the booth before I flew to OSH. Bummer!

Good feedback on what you are looking for. I agree with your list of things we need on the HUD. I already have most of them, but not all. I would add to your list with autopilot engaged indicator (something small...I don't want to clutter it too much), and pitch servo trim required indicator.

I think the highway-in-the-sky would be nice as a user selectable option, and a representation of the runway...probably just outline the corners.

I don't have tons of control over the mounting distance between the projector and the combiner glass, so for now I think we will be limited 7-8...maybe up to 10 inches apart. I will experiment with this more when I get home. It might work up to 10", but the image will get so big it will fill the combiner glass and might make your head/eye position more critical.

I do have some control over correcting the optical distortions (using software), so that will allow more flexibility in the angles between projector to combiner, combiner to eyes. I also am including the ability to mount the projector upside down or rightside up.

I am having second thoughts about allows for use of a first-surface mirror. The mirror would probably end up blocking your view out the window, unless you positioned the combiner low on the windscreen. I do not want my combiner low. I want it positioned so the outside world horizon passes through the middle of it when in cruise flight. Note that in order to allow for use of a mirror, out software would have to mirror the image, which could be to time consuming for the software/processor. So for now, don't consider using a mirror.

When planning your installation, think about what part of the view out your window is most important to you. In my RV-6A, the area just above the glareshield/just over the cowl is important to me, so I will not put things that block my view there. When I flare, I noticed this is where my eyes go to sense the ground. In my RV-10 I sit up much higher, looking more down on the cowl, so maybe it will be different. Looking up, through projector, is easy (strange) and I didn't care in the least with its impact when mounted on the windscreen, against the roll over bar in my slider.

Ok...back to the show!

Greg Toman
GRT Avionics.

PS. Hudly emailed me! They are interested in what we are doing. Could lead to more good things. I have my ideas for them!

Last edited by Greg_Toman : 07-27-2017 at 06:45 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2017, 07:15 AM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGG
Posts: 2,014
Default smaller projector

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Toman View Post
...PS. Hudly emailed me! They are interested in what we are doing. Could lead to more good things. I have my ideas for them!
See if they can make the projector smaller/more powerful/different locations - struggling to see how it would work in my RV8 without blocking visibility, but if it were small, on the glarescreen, off to the right, that might work.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:13 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Toman View Post
When planning your installation, think about what part of the view out your window is most important to you. In my RV-6A, the area just above the glareshield/just over the cowl is important to me, so I will not put things that block my view there. When I flare, I noticed this is where my eyes go to sense the ground. In my RV-10 I sit up much higher, looking more down on the cowl, so maybe it will be different. Looking up, through projector, is easy (strange) and I didn't care in the least with its impact when mounted on the windscreen, against the roll over bar in my slider.

Ok...back to the show!

Greg Toman
Aha! Greg - your comments here perfectly encapsulate the reasoning behind my questions about mounting variability.

In the 2-seat RV's the windshield isn't very tall so there's little distance between the glare shield and canopy bow, thus your comment about "sighting down the cowl" for landing references. By contrast, in our Sportsman the windshield is quite tall and one tends to sit up high in the saddle, thus one would use a different set of visual cues/references when flying. Getting the HUD in the right position to help a pilot while not hindering his/her critical visual cuing is not an easy task. Ultimately the end product will benefit from maximizing the product's capacity to accommodate variations in installations.

I'll second your comments about autopilot status annunciation - that was kind of what I was hinting at with my previous comment on nav and autopilot modes. I failed to provide precision in my comment and you caught what is most certainly THE most important A/P annunciation - A/P engaged.

WRT showing the synthetic vision runway, I've seen this done previously and it left me at 6s and 7s as to its usefulness. The real concern is the runway position on the glass will appear to move with head movement; if one is flying an approach in low weather there's a concern that the relative motion between the real runway and the HUD representation might overwhelm a pilot and cause their attention to be drawn away from the lat/vert guidance indications. Still, having this feature available through a software toggle switch would, I'm sure, make it easier to pick out a runway in the distance.

As for excitement, yeah, I'm kind of excited about this development, too! Our "project" came to us with a GRT WS EFIS in the panel. As a dyed-in-the-wool Dynon guy I wasn't too keen on the WS, then I started doing some reading which caused me to upgrade it to an HS, then an HX and then to be one of the earliest adopters of the Mini-X for my backup instrument. It's because you keep pushing and innovating that I'm so very pleased I stuck with the GRT equipment. Now all I have to do is get the airplane flying... :-)
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2017, 08:18 PM
Greg_Toman Greg_Toman is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Caledonia, MI
Posts: 28
Default Hud projector position

As for the position of the projector...it end up in front and above you. If you look at the photos of it mounted in my RV-6 slider, it is on the windshield, in front of the rollover structure. This positions the combiner in the middle of the windshield. I doubt there would be any problem mounting it in any Vans airplane, even an rv-3 or rv-4, and definitely bright enough.

I expect, like me, you will eventually be surprised how different it is from your initial expectations.

Greg Toman
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