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  #11  
Old 12-06-2016, 06:52 PM
Bob Kuykendall's Avatar
Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vfrazier View Post
But to answer your question, the F4 Raider is our response to all of the RV guys who wanted a 4 cylinder Rocket. I'd compare it to an RV-8, but with a more comfortable cockpit (no gear towers in the cockpit)...
Let me know when you're ready for a tapered wing for it.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:00 PM
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vfrazier vfrazier is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall View Post
Let me know when you're ready for a tapered wing for it.
Bob, let me know when you're ready to make about 200 sets! Maybe we should take this offline for now so we don't cause mass hysteria. Hit me at vincefrazier@gmail.com or vince@f1aircraft.com
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Vince Frazier
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F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
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F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:39 PM
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Now you're talkin'....
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2016, 09:53 AM
Rupester Rupester is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Now you're talkin'....
For sure!
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2016, 02:16 PM
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vfrazier vfrazier is offline
 
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Just to be clear here for the masses, there are NO Evo (tapered) wings available at this time. If such a wing becomes available again, it will be announced on our websites first and here on VAF about 3 seconds afterwards.

So please, hold your inquiries, comments, and speculation. We get it. Honestly. We get it. But we have a whole bunch of other, higher priority pieces and parts to get produced before any wing options are considered.
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F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)

F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2016, 02:41 PM
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Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vfrazier View Post
Just to be clear here for the masses, there are NO Evo (tapered) wings available at this time...
And anyhow, my wing is much better than the Czech tapered wing. It is being developed by Steve Smith, who designed the RV-10 wing profile for Van.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:46 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
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Bob
I have over a thousand hours on my EVO and I am not sure I would change anything other then maybe moving it aft on the fuselage a tad for weight and balance reasons.
Is your wing flying yet?
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Tom Martin RV1 pilot 4.6hours!
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EVO F1 Rocket 1000 hours,
2010 SARL Rocket 100 race, average speed of 238.6 knots/274.6mph
RV4, RV7, RV10, two HRIIs and five F1 Rockets
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:51 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
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Bob
I have over a thousand hours on my EVO and I am not sure I would change anything other then maybe moving it aft on the fuselage a tad for weight and balance reasons.
Is your wing flying yet?
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Tom Martin RV1 pilot 4.6hours!
CPL & IFR rated
EVO F1 Rocket 1000 hours,
2010 SARL Rocket 100 race, average speed of 238.6 knots/274.6mph
RV4, RV7, RV10, two HRIIs and five F1 Rockets
RV14 Tail dragger flying #153

Fairlea Field
St.Thomas, Ontario Canada, CYQS
fairleafield@gmail.com
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2016, 04:58 PM
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F1Boss F1Boss is offline
 
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Default Interesting statement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall View Post
And anyhow, my wing is much better than the Czech tapered wing. It is being developed by Steve Smith, who designed the RV-10 wing profile for Van.
I think all of us will agree that a tapered wing looks better. Those better looks come at a cost - there ain't no free lunch. There are benefits and drawbacks to a tapered design that replaces a non-tapered wing.

The Evo wing is designed to FAR 23 specs for a specific Vne, CG range, and weight. If I recall what the Czech engineer told me, it is good for close to 400MPH, and the gust penetration speed is 175KT at 2600LBS. That is a very robust envelope for a small aircraft. The wing was not designed specificlally for the F1 - it was designed for a very different design with side-by-side seating.

At the weights the F1 Evo flies, the design allows us to load it up like an A-10 - if the gear were stronger, and the empennage/aft fuselage/tailwheel assy were up to the job. Alas, they are not.

So, the robust design of the Evo wing adds a 'bit more' weight than required, compared to a wing set up for the design parameters of the F1. How much more weight? About 115lbs. Yes - that is one hundred fifteen pounds. Generally, the empty weight of the Evos run 1300lbs or so.

A composite wing - that meets the same design requirements - would be much lighter - likely close to the weight of a std RV wing assembly. Attaching the thing to the RV/F1 fuselage is the difficult part; a stub spar seems to be a good plan for the main spar.

Tapered wing Disclaimer: the CG range of a wing is described as two points on the airfoil, referencing the mean chord. If the wing is tapered, the mean chord is smaller, thus the CG range is smaller. This can change the gross weight load distribution slightly, or dramatically. What this means to us in the smaller plane we fly: the luggage capacity might have to be reduced (assuming it is in the aft fuselage), and maybe we can't take Bubba for a ride.

You might say (as Tom suggested): I'll move the engine forward! That would allow for more luggage, and Bubba, but if the design puts the pilot in the front seat, solo flight characteristics will suffer - think heavy elevator forces. The HR2 is known for better control harmony with someone in the back - the F1 has the same setup, but just a bit better due to the different horizontal tail.

We tweaked the elev system in the Evo (less deflection required), and retrofitted the same system to the Sport wing to reduce the heavy elev forces. The Evo has very light elev forces, but that goes hand in hand with the narrower CG range, and smaller aft load capacity.

Note the Extra has the pilot in the back for solo flight, putting the cargo/baggage/passenger on the CG. The load effect on the CG is much more favorable in this design.

So, a tapered wing design will probably be more suited for a side-by-side design as opposed to a tandem (front seat solo), as the CG range required is much smaller in the side by side design. The fwd luggage compartment in the RV8 might also help, but my guess is the airfoil will need to be shifted a bit on the spar to tweak the wing CG range to reflect what is normal to the standard wing. I can almost guarantee that the CG range will be smaller - but I could be wrong!

In any case, it will certainly look better, and it just might fly better. Likely it will also be faster. I can't wait to see it fly!

Carry on!
Mark
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2016, 11:08 PM
hrhodes2@comcast.net hrhodes2@comcast.net is offline
 
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Location: TN
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Solution:

GIII RG with TIO540AE2A! Doing it! Yep I'm aping Jeff Lavell's package....and yes composite & side by side. Did I mention tapered wing???

So clear
HR
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