VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-12
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:22 PM
John-G John-G is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 427
Default

Doug,

To answer your question about the compass .... I don't know yet. I have finally gotten all the bugs out of my RV-12 except for being able to swing the compass. As of now, the north/south is spot on but the east/west is still over 10 degrees off after max adjustment. It is not an electrical issue as the compass is still off with the master switch off.

I've been putting off digging into it because of another mod I'm currently working on. That said, I think I will be able to get it to swing correctly after installing the magnetic balancing balls and mu metal I purchased a few months ago from ACS but have yet to install.

Will try to remember to amend this post with the final outcome.

Return from the future: Was not able to swing the PAI 700 vertical card compass to my satisfaction even with compensating balls and Mu-metal. However, an Airpath C2300 compass was able to be successfully swung ... see post 18 in this thread for more info.

Happy building,
__________________
John
www.dogaviation.com
RV-12 Wings, Empennage, Fuselage, Finishing, Avionics and Powerplant kits all completed
Now Flying!!

Dues paid until September 2017

Last edited by John-G : 08-13-2017 at 06:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:35 PM
DonFromTX's Avatar
DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,546
Default

Well said, good advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Add a Dynon D2 Pocket Panel and a Garmin 660 Aera.

You can wire the D2 and 660 into your electrical system so they are always charged. These two units are smile to install and light.

If you are really worried, toss a handheld radio and extra batteries in your flight bag.
__________________
AF1 (was RV12) EAB Air Force One, SN 461, N461DG VIKING/HONDA ENGINE POWERED! AND N756TS ROTAX POWERED
A&P, PP-SEL, Pathological Flier, EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Chapter 595 President,http://www.595.eaachapter.org/index.htm
Retired US Army Officer
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index....X&project=1903
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-18-2017, 07:40 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,517
Default

I have the same compass as John-G in the same location, and it's equally inaccurate, although to be fair I haven't gone to great lengths to try to adjust it so far. However, the compass on my iPhone works very well.
__________________
rgmwa
120346
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:10 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 10,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
Well said, good advice.
Thanks Don.

The truth is, these are Day VFR planes. If the pilot can't find his/her way home, or to a near by airport, and land without the EFIS display (which are more reliable than steam gauges), then they need some more training.

(For the record, I have a D1 and 486 for my backup.)
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 05-18-2017 at 09:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:11 AM
terrykohler terrykohler is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 924
Default If You Can't Dead Reckon....

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Add a Dynon D2 Pocket Panel and a Garmin 660 Aera.

You can wire the D2 and 660 into your electrical system so they are always charged. These two units are simple to install and light.

If you are really worried, toss a handheld radio and extra batteries in your flight bag.
... You shouldn't be up there. Practice. At the same time, the legacy Garmin portables (396, 496) and the the Aera series all have "nearest, direct to, and synthetic panel" functions. Much more readable and reliable than an iPad or iPhone. Bill's suggestions offer enough backup coverage for instrument ( as well as VFR) flight at very minimal cost.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-21-2017, 06:43 AM
AirHound AirHound is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: OFallon IL now, everywhere before
Posts: 132
Default

John,
I enjoy monitoring your build experience and tips and thank you for answering my question. I participated in an AOPA Rusty Pilot session and was reminded that at the tail end of the ARROW acronym is P for Placards and C for Compass Card. I know that we are not required to have a standby non-electric compass and Some of us heavily rely on having multiple electronic sources, I do as well. However, IMHO, having an accurate standby/mechanical compass and knowing how to use it is not the mark of deficient piloting skills, as others suggest, especially when operating out and away from familiar terrain with low risk of complete electronic failure.

John any opinion about installing a in-panel wet compass and it being more conducive to swinging/calibration in our 12's than a card type compass?

Thanks again!
Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by John-G View Post
Doug,

To answer your question about the compass .... I don't know yet. I have finally gotten all the bugs out of my RV-12 except for being able to swing the compass. As of now, the north/south is spot on but the east/west is still over 10 degrees off after max adjustment. It is not an electrical issue as the compass is still off with the master switch off.

I've been putting off digging into it because of another mod I'm currently working on. That said, I think I will be able to get it to swing correctly after installing the magnetic balancing balls and mu metal I purchased a few months ago from ACS but have yet to install.

Will try to remember to amend this post with the final outcome.

Happy building,
__________________
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:26 AM
John-G John-G is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirHound View Post
John,
However, IMHO, having an accurate standby/mechanical compass and knowing how to use it is not the mark of deficient piloting skills, as others suggest, especially when operating out and away from familiar terrain with low risk of complete electronic failure.

John any opinion about installing a in-panel wet compass and it being more conducive to swinging/calibration in our 12's than a card type compass?

Thanks again!
Doug
Doug,

Yes, I have a panel mounted compass backup plan in addition to the phone/tablet I will have in the cockpit. I knew going into it that a panel mounted vertical card compass can be finicky to swing and would be a total c**p shoot. (For that very reason, if you look closely at my panel photo, you will see I did not drill out the holes for the adjustment screws. While attempting to swing the compass I used long 3" brass screws and pushed the compass back to get at the adjusters).

If I can't get the PAI vertical card compass to swing correctly by using the compensating balls and Mu metal previously mentioned, the backup plan is to try to installing a whiskey compass such as a panel mounted Airpath or Falcon. Others have posted here in the forums stating they have had luck with a panel mounted whiskey compass in the RV-12. I would have gone that way to begin with but have to admit, I was drawn in by the "looks cool factor" of the vertical card compass. The last option, albeit an expensive one, is to add a panel mounted digital compass such as the AV-1 or AV-2 from MGL Avionics ... impressive hardware.

I plan on opening up the avionics bay for a mod I'm working on and hope to be doing that within the next few weeks so will play with the balancing balls at that time in the hopes of being able to get the the compass to swing. Guess I can amend this post with the results.

Return from the future: Was not able to swing the PAI 700 vertical card compass to my satisfaction even with compensating balls and Mu-metal. However, an Airpath C2300 compass was able to be successfully swung ... see post #18 in this thread for more info.

Happy building,
__________________
John
www.dogaviation.com
RV-12 Wings, Empennage, Fuselage, Finishing, Avionics and Powerplant kits all completed
Now Flying!!

Dues paid until September 2017

Last edited by John-G : 08-13-2017 at 06:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:59 PM
John-G John-G is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 427
Default Panel mounting PAI 700 compass a failure.

Update: Instillation of Precision Aviation Inc. PAI 700 compass in the RV-12 instrument panel is a failure. However, an Airpath C2300 whiskey compass works just fine …. Go figure!

As mentioned in posts #3,11 & 17 of this thread, I wanted a backup compass in the RV-12 so a Precision Aviation Inc. PAI 700 vertical card compass was installed in the panel. The PAI 700 compass was installed in the upper left corner of the right instrument panel section above a backup altimeter and directly to the right of a backup airspeed indicator located in the upper right of the center panel section (photo can be seen in posts 3). Prior to installing the PAI 700, a check was made to verify the compass displayed the correct readings and had no tight spots … this was accomplished by slowly stepping around in a circle while holding onto the compass and all seemed well. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind not to cut out access holes in the panel for the adjusting screws because I was not sure if the compass could be swung … that proved to be smart.

I and others spent countless hours trying to make the PAI 700 compass work …. sadly to no avail. Initially, the RV-12 was taxied over to the compass rose where the SkyView’s magnetometer was ground calibrated and an attempt was made to swing the PAI 700 compass at that time ... north/south was basically spot on but east/west was WAY off by 15 degrees or so even after the east/west compensator on the compass was maxed out. Not good!

I’ll spare the forum all the troubleshooting methods used, but it did involve purchasing compensation balls which helped immensely but still did not solve the problem. Laying a sheet of Mu-metal across the top of the backup altimeter between the compass and the altimeter had the biggest affect and there was a point in time when I thought the compass would be usable using Mu-metal in conjunction with the compensating balls … but the compass began giving flaky non-repeatable readings, so decided it was time to throw the towel in.

Photo of the compensation balls attached onto the back of the PAI 700 vertical card compass:
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RM1weCkry...0/DSC02701.JPG

Photo of the Mu-metal that was installed under the PAI 700 vertical card compass.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nG2CxA-Mx...0/DSC02769.JPG

Decided to yank out the PAI 700 and replace it with an AirPath C2300 whiskey compass. Had much better luck with the C2300 which was able to be successfully swung … however, discovered it also required the sheet of Mu-metal installed across the top of the backup altimeter. Even with the Mu-metal in place the east/west compensator is maxed out … but most of the readings are within a couple of degrees now with the worst being 4 degrees off. So the Airpath C2300 compass is quite usable for a backup ... but nowhere near the “cool factor” of the PAI 700. In this case, it’s function over form.

Photo of the Airpath C2300 whiskey compass along with the Mu-metal which was necessary to allow the compass to be swung.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iBCYGr7Ld...0/DSC02783.JPG

New look of the DOG Aviation RV-12 front panel ... lost is the coolness of the vertical card compass .... gained is the functionality of the Pathway C2300 whiskey compass.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kWDmWHdiO...0/DSC02781.JPG
__________________
John
www.dogaviation.com
RV-12 Wings, Empennage, Fuselage, Finishing, Avionics and Powerplant kits all completed
Now Flying!!

Dues paid until September 2017

Last edited by John-G : 08-12-2017 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Added links to photos
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:06 PM
snopercod's Avatar
snopercod snopercod is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 652
Default iPad 2 has pressure sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerofsorts View Post
I'd go with an iPad Mini ...with Foreflight--self-powered, gives you moving map--just missing the attitude info.
My iPad Air2 has a built in pressure sensor set to 29.92 so Foreflight displays either GPS altitude or Pressure altitude. I don't know about the mini...
__________________
(2017 dues paid)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:13 PM
snopercod's Avatar
snopercod snopercod is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 652
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirHound View Post
Anyone install a liquid filled/whisky compass?
I did, and was careful not to route any current-carrying wires near it.
__________________
(2017 dues paid)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:55 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.