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  #1  
Old 07-31-2017, 06:35 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
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Location: Santa Monica, California
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Default SLSA registration possible for Synergy-assisted build by owner?

I know that a 100% Synergy-built RV-12 can be registered as an SLSA, and that an owner-built RV-12 can be registered as an ELSA or EAB.

A fellow named Dennis Schoenberg participated in the building of his RV-12 at Synergy. He explained what he did in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqO2ljyuTKI .

Schoenberg registered his RV-12 as an Experimental. But did he have to?

Would an RV-12 built at Synergy, with significant involvement by the owner, be eligible for an SLSA registration, or would it have to be registered as an ELSA (or EAB)?
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2017, 07:22 PM
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Phantom30 Phantom30 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lon@carolon.net View Post
I know that a 100% Synergy-built RV-12 can be registered as an SLSA, and that an owner-built RV-12 can be registered as an ELSA or EAB.

A fellow named Dennis Schoenberg participated in the building of his RV-12 at Synergy. He explained what he did in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqO2ljyuTKI .

Schoenberg registered his RV-12 as an Experimental. But did he have to?

Would an RV-12 built at Synergy, with significant involvement by the owner, be eligible for an SLSA registration, or would it have to be registered as an ELSA (or EAB)?
I guess my question to you is: Why would you want S-LSA if you are going to build it? Other than being able to use it to charge for flight instruction, don't see an advantage. E-LSA, being "experimental" gives you the ability to do "all repair work" (part 43 does not apply to them); with a 16 hour class, you can get a repairman-inspection license to do annual inspections and sign-off.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2017, 08:03 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Phantom30 View Post
I guess my question to you is: Why would you want S-LSA if you are going to build it? Other than being able to use it to charge for flight instruction, don't see an advantage. E-LSA, being "experimental" gives you the ability to do "all repair work" (part 43 does not apply to them); with a 16 hour class, you can get a repairman-inspection license to do annual inspections and sign-off.
Good question, and I have an answer. When the time comes to sell the plane, the pool of potential buyers would include flight schools and pilots who wouldn't be interested in an amateur built plane, if the RV-12 an SLSA but not if it's an ELSA. I also have friends who are flight instructors, and they could use the plane to give instruction if it's an SLSA.

I'd like to participate in building the plane just for the pleasure of doing so. I got into flying after building several radio controlled helicopters -- each new one bigger than the last. The last one I built is too big to fly in my backyard, and the closest model aircraft park is too far away to go there often. As a result, I've flown that last helicopter very little. But I sure did enjoy building it.

Participating in the building of an RV-12 would give me the same kind of pleasure, on an even grander scale. But I'd like the build to be finished in less time than it would take me to build it on my own. And I also don't have a place or the tools to do the job myself.
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2017, 09:58 PM
JosephineJ79 JosephineJ79 is offline
 
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There are professional builders. But they have to charge more if the owner helps because the owner will slow down the builder.
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:35 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JosephineJ79 View Post
There are professional builders. But they have to charge more if the owner helps because the owner will slow down the builder.
Yes, I've seen photos of the workshop signs:
Labor charges
$100/hour
$125/hour if you watch
$150/hour if you help

I don't expect to save money by participating in the build. I even wondered whether doing so may make the plane more expensive than if I simply purchased a 100% Synegy-built SLSA.
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:11 AM
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f1rocket f1rocket is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lon@carolon.net View Post
Good question, and I have an answer. When the time comes to sell the plane, the pool of potential buyers would include flight schools and pilots who wouldn't be interested in an amateur built plane, if the RV-12 an SLSA but not if it's an ELSA. I also have friends who are flight instructors, and they could use the plane to give instruction if it's an SLSA.
Perhaps. However, from what I've seen, just the opposite is true. I've seen SLSA RV-12 priced tens of thousands less than what they cost just to sell them. I don't think your potential pool is that much larger, but maybe I'm wrong. It's all a matter of the market at the time you sell so who knows.
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:31 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lon@carolon.net View Post
I don't expect to save money by participating in the build. I even wondered whether doing so may make the plane more expensive than if I simply purchased a 100% Synegy-built SLSA.
Maybe Synergy could hire you on as a temporary unpaid intern, that way it would still be a 100% Synergy-built SLSA RV-12. If that even makes a difference. I have no idea what the rules and requirements are for an airplane to qualify as SLSA.
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2017, 01:58 PM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
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Default we could---

get into the debate again over build assist facilities like Synergy and others. Thats probably for another thread.

Tom
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2017, 08:55 PM
lon@carolon.net lon@carolon.net is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TS Flightlines View Post
get into the debate again over build assist facilities like Synergy and others. Thats probably for another thread.

Tom
I've been reading this forum for quite a while, but I missed that debate. Is the debate about whether kit-builders should use build assist facilities like Synergy, or is the debate about whether using them (to build anything other than an ELSA) is legal under the EAB 51% rule?
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