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Crow Enterprises - harnesses

Bushings back in stock

Guys, I have about 10 sets of bushings ready to go. Sorry for the delay, I was traveling for work. Same deal, $20 shipped for qty 8 bushings. Contact me either via PM or email (from my profile).

Rick 90432
 
Bushings available

I have a few more sets of bushings for the Crow harnesses. If you're interested, pm or email me. I know I have 4 sets, it may be 5. Each set does a 2-place RV. Rick 90432
 
rjcthree said:
Guys, I have about 10 sets of bushings ready to go. Sorry for the delay, I was traveling for work. Same deal, $20 shipped for qty 8 bushings. Contact me either via PM or email (from my profile).

Rick 90432
Click to expand...

Rick, I haven't received mine yet. I think we missed each other somewhere along the way. What do you need me to do regarding payment? [email protected]. Thanks - Rich
 
Crow

How do they compare to Vans... not even close.

If you have local builder with the vans harness, go look.

Crow makes a great product. Beware...they dont seem to be big on emails. Might have to pick up the phone with them but the service, shipping and product are great value. Very nice addition to my project and always a pleasure dealing with good people during the build.

Buy them and be happy. :p
 
Crow Harness

Rick,
I am new to the process here but I just ordered a set of Crow harnesses and could use a set of the bushings. Please let me know how I can get this transaction done if you still have some left.
Regards,
Jamie
 
I just ordered a set of Crow harness and am wondering why anyone needs bushings. My belts came with 7/16 holes in the tangs but the tangs are so long that it makes a lot more sense just to drill new 1/4" holes (or 5/16 for 5th point) in the middle of the tangs. The webbing does not come close to rubbing on any of the anchors. Plus, doing so leaves far more edge distance than the original 7/16" hole has. I'm not sure what the benefit would be to using the original 7/16" holes with bushings (?). Maybe it's different for the tandem models or the -10?
 
Steve,

That's what I did on my Crow harnesses - just cut off the extra weight and drilled new 0.25 holes. Works great and lighter than standard.

greg
 
...and just to repeat what Paul said...

"I was one of the very early adopters of the Crow belts, back before they knew that they were going into an airplane rather than a race car. The attach fittings came with the large holes, but I found that two AN washers fit perfectly into the holes when pressed in with my pneumatic squeezer, and then fit the bolts perfectly! I've been using them ever since, and when I take the belts out for maintenance (of other stuff, not the belts), the washers stay put where they were pressed, They fit great in the -8 - have never had any chafing problems." Paul Dye
 
TX7A said:
"I was one of the very early adopters of the Crow belts, back before they knew that they were going into an airplane rather than a race car. The attach fittings came with the large holes, but I found that two AN washers fit perfectly into the holes when pressed in with my pneumatic squeezer, and then fit the bolts perfectly! I've been using them ever since, and when I take the belts out for maintenance (of other stuff, not the belts), the washers stay put where they were pressed, They fit great in the -8 - have never had any chafing problems." Paul Dye
Click to expand...
Yes, I read Paul's comment too, and so that was the first thing I tried. This may have been true with the fittings that used to be provided a long time ago, but unfortunately none of the standard size AN washers are really even close to the size of the holes in the fittings that I received from Crow. AN4 washers, for example, are quite a bit too large in their O.D. to fit, even with a squeezer.
 
Rather than start a new thread, here's another positive comment for Crow! I just got off the phone with Chris - ordered the harness for the RV-3. I wanted a five-point, 3" with attach hardware and pull up lap-belts. Couldn't figure out for sure how to do that on the web site, so picked up the phone, and he was great in putting together exactly what I wanted.

Unlike many companies that boldly "stay away" from aviation, they are enthusiastic about supporting us, and that is great to hear. (I love the Tuthill engine control cables that come from Van's with a sticker that says "not for aircraft use"....) Very service oriented, and wanted to make sure I got what I needed. Oh yeah - I asked what it would cost to convert my existing lap belts from "pull-down" to "pull-up" adjustment. If I send in the old ones to re-use the hardware, it's $20 per seat. heck, the SHIPPING is more than that!

Great company.

Paul
 
Same great experience. I made a call and talked to the owner and a few days later my belts for the 9A came in and they look really nice. Can't do any better than that.
 
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Easy Adapters

I just did the install of the new Crow harness in our RV-3B the other day, and it turns out that this is really easy to do! Take a stack of AN4 washers ? two for each belt that you are going to install. Find a hardware-store ?? bolt about three or four inches long, and two nuts. Thread a nut on to the bolt, then put all the washers on, then another nut ? tighten the two nuts on the stack of washers, leaving a good inch and a half of bolt sticking out beyond the second nut. Use this to chuck the stack of washers u pin your drill press. Start up the drill press, grab a file, and shave down the cylindrical stack of washers until the diameter of the stack fits through the mounting hole. Voila? - Instant adapters!

Paul
 
Almost the same

I just drilled out the hardware to 31/64 and just lightly filed the hole out and the AN4washers tapped in snugly, two, one from each side and made perfect bushings that don't fall out.

I love the new harnesses by the way.
 
RV8iator said:
I just drilled out the hardware to 31/64 and just lightly filed the hole out and the AN4washers tapped in snugly, two, one from each side and made perfect bushings that don't fall out.

I love the new harnesses by the way.
Click to expand...

That was my first choice Widget - then I found out I didn't have the right size drill bit on hand, and at the same time, my better half said "why weaken the seat belt attach points?" While I doubt that it would weaken them sufficiently to cause a problem, I found the bushings to be the path of least resistance this time. When I installed the Crow's in the -8 about six years ago, the AN4 washers pressed right in - holes must have been bigger.

Paul
 
I went to Ace hardware and found that an M6 metric washers fit perfectly in the holes and reduces the size to an AN4 bolt. I just stacked three washers per hole and made sure they were held captive by either a large diameter AN washer or the bracket to which they were attached. They feel very solid.
 
Ironflight said:
That was my first choice Widget - then I found out I didn't have the right size drill bit on hand, and at the same time, my better half said "why weaken the seat belt attach points?" While I doubt that it would weaken them sufficiently to cause a problem, I found the bushings to be the path of least resistance this time. When I installed the Crow's in the -8 about six years ago, the AN4 washers pressed right in - holes must have been bigger.

Paul
Click to expand...

I thought about that too Paul, but I figured taking out 1/32 wasn't going to change the load that much. If I hit the ground that hard I doubt it'll make much difference:)
 
Crow belts and 6mm washer

My darling got me some Crow belts for the other woman for christmas. They are real nice. Found the AN4 bold it a tad small for the anchor points on the Crow belts. Found this thread and the idea that sounded the simplest was #6 metric washers (Pep Boys) and my rivet squeezer. Well it worked great. So great the squeezer was not really required but I did use it. Felt more like I was actually doing something. Simple and inexpensive. WX permitting take them up for a flight tomorrow.

By the way old belts from my RV6 free (except for shipping) if any one wants them.
 
Does anyone have a list of crow parts to replace stock Vans belts in an RV-8? I want to upgrade in January.
 
Web sight or phone

Just jump on there web sight or call them. They have a section just for RVs on there web sight. It is under "driver restraint systems". Here is the link if I did it correctly http://www.crowenterprizes.com/Pages/Aircraft.html. My GF just called them told them what plane we had they talked to her about a few options and they made them up. They are so close to us that she drove over and picked them up. They were ready in a day. She says they were VERRY nice and helpful.
 
does anybody have a pix of the 5th point mount with the crow belt in place. I got a set and the tang on the strap is too short.. and with Van's mount there isn't much room to move a hole.. just looking for other solutions.

Thanks
Bill
 
Hi Bill,

I ran into the same issue and like others did the following. Hope this helps.

1. I ordered these brackets seperatley form Crow intending to modify them. (Mine originally came with the shorter brackets.) First they were too thick to fit so my machine shop friend surfaced ground them down a tad.
2. Then I drilled a hole where I needed it.
3. Then trimmed the bracket to size.
4. Installed

crotch.jpg
 
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Size belt

The website did not say how wide the belts are and when I call they seem to be just under 2" (1 27/32") I was thinking I wanted 3" which they will do for me but the guy said when he makes them 3" they usually get returned for the 2" size, he will make me 2" belts but they will not take them on return.

So do I want 3" or go with the 2"? I plan to do aerobatics every flight, one of the main reasons for building the RV-8A, at least on the lap belt I thought 3" would be best but I have not flown regularly with any type to know what I prefer. The friends -8 I have flown has a 3" lap belt (hooker I think)

Thanks for inputs, I need to order this week and was stumped by the size debate with the fella at Crow.
 
I obviously can't tell you what YOU want Mike, but I have 3" Crow belts in the -8, and we put the same thing in the -3....I like them, especially for Acro.

Paul
 
shoulder as well

Ironflight said:
I obviously can't tell you what YOU want Mike, but I have 3" Crow belts in the -8, and we put the same thing in the -3....I like them, especially for Acro.

Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul, did you go 3" all around or just the lap belt and 2" for the shoulders?

Thanks.
 
Three inch belts are intuitively attractive for acro, but I went two inch. I'm not finished yet, but I have flown small, cramped aircraft with both camlock and latch type two inch restraints. I've never really yearned for wider belts. The two inch Crows are already heavy and bulky enough for my taste. Unless you are extremely large, I doubt there are any functional advantages to going wider.
 
I find the 3" a bit bulky on my shoulders and would probably prefer the 2", although the 3" does give a nice, secure feel. I expect broad-shouldered guys wouldn't have the same issue. Nonetheless, you might consider 3" for the pilot and 2" for the GIB.
 
2 inch vs 3 inch

This is from Schroth's website.


Schroth?s 2? Lap Belts are Safer and Easier to Use

PEABODY, MA ? SUMMER 2005: For the past x years, the European governing body of Motorsport (the FIA) has known that 2? webbing in a lap belt is more effective than 3? webbing. However the FIA does not have much jurisdiction here in the states. And for these superior restraints to gain popularity and acceptance in the US, it?s been a long struggle. Leading the struggle is the US Importer of Schroth Restraints, HMS Motorsport. Joe Marko, Owner of HMS Motorsport has been traveling the country speaking at Motorsport safety conferences to raise awareness of this problem.

To explain why 2? webbing is more effective than 3? webbing, one needs to look at the shape of the human body. The Iliac Crest is the part of the pelvic bone that sticks out above the hips. A piece of 2? webbing will fit entirely within that crest, where a 3? belt would ride only on the tips of the crest. The 3? webbing has less surface area by percentage than the 2? webbing which will cause more bruising on impact as ?hot-spots? of force develop where the belt is making contact with the pelvic bone. Also, these 3? belts will not be as tight as they could be if they were 2? wide.

The solution is to run 2? webbing. It fits well within the Iliac Crest of the pelvis, which means it?s less likely to slide up above the crest and cause submarining ? a condition where the body slides down below the lap belts causing internal organ damage at best. Because of the fit, you can also get the webbing up to 2? tighter than you could with 3? webbing.

Research shows that harnesses with 2? lap belts yield lower sub strap loads ? a fact that highlights how well the lap belts are working. There is no difference in strength between the two different webbing widths, and a 2? webbing has less friction through an adjuster making it easier to adjust when the driver is sitting in the seat.

Schroth?s solution addresses all these issues as well as a few more. Their ?Flexi-Belt? Technology allows the end user to change the harness between two configurations ? Pull up to tighten or Pull down. This unique technology also allows the user to choose between many different end fittings that will suit their car?s setup best. It?s a win/win situation for all drivers ? a safer harness that?s easier to use.

The Sanctioning bodies in the US have been slow to respond to this knowledge, but the tides have begun to change, and as of 2005 the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) has approved the 2? lap belt for all club and pro events. SCCA joins NASA, the BMWCCA, [etc etc] among the sanctioning bodies that allow and in some cases advocate the safer 2? webbing. Safety is an ever-changing aspect of Motorsport, and those that govern it are paying attention to the information provided by Schroth, HMS Motorsport and the FIA.
 
Louise Hose said:
I find the 3" a bit bulky on my shoulders and would probably prefer the 2", although the 3" does give a nice, secure feel. I expect broad-shouldered guys wouldn't have the same issue. Nonetheless, you might consider 3" for the pilot and 2" for the GIB.
Click to expand...

I have to echo what Louise said. I have the 3" Crows and while they are secure feeling they are kind of a pain unless you are a bigger person, especially on top of a parachute harness. I would probably do 2" next time.
 
Super info

I and I am sure others appreciate the inputs. I think I will go with the standard and see how they work out, the nice part with Crow is I am sure I can work up 3" parts if I decide to go that route in the future. I will say the 3" belt I have used in a friends -8 does seem difficult to cinch up but they are old and I am sure the backseat does no get used as often.

Time to place and order I guess.

Back to sanding, I am glad I am making a mess of the dust in my garage as opposed to the hanger, the dust would migrate to my neighbors I am sure. Move to the airport will be in two weeks!
 
Just got mine

Mine just arrived today...a little ways away yet, wish I had of known ACS carried them now.

Nice set! Standard 2".

DP
 
anchor bolt hole size in Crows

Now that ACS is carrying them, does anybody know if the holes in the anchor point holes are now sized for the RV's or does one still need an adapter (washer), or drill new holes beside the existing?

Bevan
 
Bevan said:
Now that ACS is carrying them, does anybody know if the holes in the anchor point holes are now sized for the RV's or does one still need an adapter (washer), or drill new holes beside the existing?

Bevan
Click to expand...

I just received my harness from Crow (ordered though ACS) and no, the bolt holes are not the correct size. No spacers were included, so modification will still be required. Other than that, the harness is very nice and has a lot of room for adjustment so they should fit anyone.
 
Can the 5 pt harness be used as a 4 pt harness?

I did not install the 5th point anchor system and will not be flying aerobatics in my 9A. I like the Crow harnesses but they do not offer a 4pt harness. Can I simply just not install the crotch strap? From the earlier comments about releasing the shoulder harness, that seems like a possibility. Or does Crow make a custom 4pt harness for RV's?
 
5th point

If you call Crow instead of using the website, they will be happy to accommodate your request for only 4 pts. I had the same question so I called. They were modestly cheaper.

I wouldn't be without the shoulder pads.
 
5th point not just for acro!

BJohnson said:
I did not install the 5th point anchor system and will not be flying aerobatics in my 9A. I like the Crow harnesses but they do not offer a 4pt harness. Can I simply just not install the crotch strap? From the earlier comments about releasing the shoulder harness, that seems like a possibility. Or does Crow make a custom 4pt harness for RV's?
Click to expand...

Brice,
I have hit my head on the canopy more times than I'd like, so the 5th is a nice option if you are in turbulence. ( I have stock van's belts I guess).
You then don't have to wrench on the shoulder belts as hard!
as far as crashworthiness, the 5th point is pretty darn important in keeping your body in place, not flailing about or flipping back into the baggage area as seems to happen surprisingly often.
 
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