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A Little Help Please

N941WR

Legacy Member
During SnF this year one of our neighbors (and RV-8 builder), Ted Weiss, went missing on April 5th. (News Article )

He was flying his Sonix from X35 to KZPH when he disappear. This is a flight of only 51 Kt miles but covers a lot of swamp and a couple of counties.

Needless to say his family is rather distraught and can't move on until he is recovered.

I would like to see if we can organize a flight of five or six RV's, with spotters to fly line abreast down low and slow over that route in hopes of locating the wreckage.

I know the forests and vegetation is very thick in that area and the chances of spotting something is slim, but if we can find him, it would really help his family!

If interested in helping, please email or PM me.

THANKS!
 
Just to be clear, the flight as I envision it will not be a formation flight as that is too dangerous. While idea is to fly close to line abreast but separated and staggered enough that the pilots and passengers will have sufficient space to look around without running into each other. If that separation is a mile, then great.

In other words, being formation qualified is not a requirement. What is a requirement is a desire to help.

Bill
 
Gary, no date is set yet but it will probably be in a couple of weeks. First we have to get enough volunteers and then we can pick a date.

I'm envisioning cruising at about 100 to 110 knots. Even Cessnas and the like can join in at those speeds.
 
Rhino is in.

It'd be a honor to try and help find one of OUR fallen.

Thats 1 Guaranteed AircraftWraps RV8

I'll check with our Blue and Silver RV8 driver once he gets back from his current trip. I'm sure it'll be 2 RV8's from us.

Regards,

Scott Farnsworth
Personal Number being PM'd
 
I'm in. Can fly anytime. Probably be able to get a couple of other guys here in Vero Beach or close by.
 
I'm sure it's been done, but has anyone called Jax center or TPA approach to see if there is a radar return that matches the departure date/time/direction? It would at least give you a point in the right direction.

Maximize your planning before you launch so maximize ground covered with available resources. Some things to think about:

-Don't get over zealous. 4-6 airplanes max depending on the experience level. If participation is high, have multiple flights covering multiple tracks that never overlap.

-Comm, have a plan. i.e. everyone is up a discrete air-air freq, monitoring. Keep chatter to a minimum. Lead give timely updates to heading and airspeed to maintain formation.

-Line abreast (if that's your plan), 1 mile apart. Two spotters in each airplane designated to a specific side of the airplane. You need to know what an RV looks like at a mile. Quick way to do it is one person goes to the end of a runway, others go 5-6000' down the runway to see what it looks like. Can you see the numbers? Can you see heads in the cockpit? You need a visual reference. 1/2 spread is pretty close and you can close that pretty quick with only 5 degrees of heading closure. From 1000' a half mile lateral is about the wingtip, so you'll get good coverage especially under the nose of the person next to you.

-Assuming you've got 5 air planes that gives you a coverage swath of about 7NM. Someone needs to be lead, particularly in the middle. Plot a very specific course from A to B. Program into GPS and fly that line, everyone lines up off them. Leverage equipment and experience to positions. Example, whoever has an autopilot that can fly the course with heading/altitude hold is the lead. Plot a return from B to A that's offset 7NM. This will maximize coverage to make sure not to cover too much of the same ground again. Back and forth. So in two passes you're covering 14NM either side of the route. When it's time to reverse course, collapse the formation down, lead makes a gentle 10 degree angle of bank turn, the whole formation turns with him. This should give you about a 5 mile turn radius. When you're on the new course, the flight spreads back out again.

-Have a plan for the formation to hold if someone needs to turn back to investigate a potential hit. Spotters, pen and paper to copy down coordinates. A handheld GPS for them will enable the pilot flying to deconflict from others in the flight and not be fidgeting with gadgets. i.e. If someone sees something, everyone in the flight enters a left hand turn, 30 degrees AOB @ 100knts. Binoculars for the passenger is a good way to look at something without needing to turn around.

-Have an altitude deconfliction plan. i.e. Lead at 1500', left and right are at 1200', the out riggers are at 1000'. There is going to be a lot of heads down time, unnoticed closure can result in a scarey situation. Worst case scenario if flight paths cross you have a built in fudge factor. If the airplane(s) next to you are level on the horizon, you have the potential to hit. Make sure they're either above or below.

-Lastly, have a separation plan. Everyone gets a sanctuary altitude. Say, 1000/1500/2000/2500/3000 etc. If for some reason you need to break up the flight, have a way to do it. i.e. the outriggers turn away 90 degrees level. The middle players turn away 45 degrees and climb to their own altitude. Lead keeps going straight and accelerates.

Have a plan, brief the plan, execute the plan. What you're doing is dynamic and complicated, but if everyone knows what to expect you'll successfully mitigate the risk. Don't hesitate to scrub and start again if things go sideways. Good luck. Wish I was there to help.
 
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Bill,

An RV is a TERRIBLE airplane for ground spotting. I wonder if it possible to fly that route and capture HD video, which could them be reviewed in slow detail?

Still, I am available and ready to go. I do have to fly up to WI this week to oversea a home sale.
 
Gents please be careful. With over participation you have the prospect of putting a lot of airplanes in a small piece of sky. It's a noble cause, but it would be a tragedy if something happens looking for your friend. Small is easy to control and coordinate. Don't get crazy.
 
Bill - sent you an email with some thoughts on this effort. Pat has some very good cautions, and I will add mine, based on running a pretty major aerial search effort in East Texas.

Paul
 
Thank you all for volunteering and your concern regarding the search.

I have already been in touch with a retired CAP officer / friend and he is helping me plan this. This week I will contact the CAP officer who performed the initial search and some other officials so they understand what we are going to do. I will ask them to join and guide us through this process.

The safety of the crews who take this mission will be paramount in our minds and we believe we can perform these flights safely and hopefully without any issues.

For those who have volunteered or are thinking about volunteering, I don't have a firm date yet but it will probably be close to a month before we can go. There is a lot of planning and coordination that must take place and that won't happen over night.

If you have a Go-Pro or are looking for an excuse to buy one, you now have it. Please test it pointing straight down or slightly forward. After each pass we will collect the videos for review later.

Also, please learn how to mark a spot on your GPS. If you see something, we do not want you to turn around, simply mark the spot on your GPS and keep flying straight. We will review those "marks" at the end of each pass.

There is a lot that goes into this type of thing and as I said before, your safety is my number one concern. With that in mind, we will have set rules each pilot will have to follow and if you are uncomfortable following them, then there is no harm in saying now.

I am in the process of developing those flight rules and will email them to the volunteers, once they are solidified.

Thanks again for all the help!

Bill
 
Hey Bill,
I remember hearing about this after I returned from SNF and I wondered what had happened.
I can help on a weekend. Was there ever any indication of his route?
You say CAP has already done a search?
 
Would like to help

but I fly a -3. If someone needs a spotter, let me know, or I can fly "tail end Charley" position
 
To all of you who have volunteered, thank you!

I will send out an email mid-week with more details.

If any of you have not heard from me, please email your name, type of aircraft, phone number, home base, and the email address you want me to use to bill (at) repucci (dot) com.

Thanks!
 
To all of you who have volunteered, thank you!

I will send out an email mid-week with more details.

If any of you have not heard from me, please email your name, type of aircraft, phone number, home base, and the email address you want me to use to bill (at) repucci (dot) com.

Thanks!

Hi Bill,
PM sent,
I can help & will recruit a couple of Sonex flyers out of KBKV & X35.
I'm available weekends of 6/1 & 6/7
 
Did anyone follow the missing Bonanza that was found near Johnson Creek eventually? Plane went missing during Xmas 2013. The family organized an interesting search process. Planes flew grids with a mounted video camera. Video was then uploaded online and people online scrutinized the video for clues. It was someone scanning the video who eventually lead searchers to the crash site. Incredible story.
 
Pic a date

If you come up with a date I can commit.
Love to help fellow aviators as I would hope someone would do the same for me and more importantly my family.
Rich
 
Did anyone follow the missing Bonanza that was found near Johnson Creek eventually? Plane went missing during Xmas 2013. The family organized an interesting search process. Planes flew grids with a mounted video camera. Video was then uploaded online and people online scrutinized the video for clues. It was someone scanning the video who eventually lead searchers to the crash site. Incredible story.

I was unaware of this but that is exactly what our plan is.
 
I have sent out an email to those who have volunteered to help. If did not receive it, please send me an email so I can add you to the list.
 
Another call for help

We have a number of people who have volunteered to help out but we can always use some more.

Please contact me, if you are capable of helping on the 28th of June.

Thanks!
 
One week to go

We are one week away from flying the search for Ted.

If you want to join us or be a spotter, please let me know.

Also, I mounted my GoPro under my wing and pointed it straight down, which is an unusual perspective. I figured before our flight, it would be nice to see what we are going to get.

This short flight (~8 minutes) was taken at speeds up to 90 kts.

From what I see, if we fly over Ted's Sonex, and if it is visible from above, we might just spot him!

PS. Any suggestions on how I should set up my GoPro would be greatly appreciated.
 
We are set to go tomorrow.

If you can make it at X35 Saturday morning at 8AM, please join us.

Bill
 
Video looks good...

Just a suggestion, if it's possible, reverse the camera so that the image moves from top down. Most of us are more used to looking at the world this way.

My comment is based on having taken part in many searches, but not video... It seems to me that a more familiar presentation may make for better scanning for anomalies...
 
Bill,

If the search does not lead to a successful outcome, post the GoPro video... with so many potential eyes watching the video, you never know who may be able to spot something.

Just a thought... Good luck.

Victor
 
Video looks good...

Just a suggestion, if it's possible, reverse the camera so that the image moves from top down. Most of us are more used to looking at the world this way.

My comment is based on having taken part in many searches, but not video... It seems to me that a more familiar presentation may make for better scanning for anomalies...
The GoPro has a setting to invert the image.

Also, looks like you're getting a little "jello" effect (3:40, etc.). This is caused by looseness in the attachment (camera movement/vibration).

I assume you'll be looking down into trees, so I'd recommend as close to vertical shot as possible and to fly at noon (or peak sun elevation). Fortunately, the sun is close to directly overhead this time of year.

Good luck!
 
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Video looks good...

Just a suggestion, if it's possible, reverse the camera so that the image moves from top down. Most of us are more used to looking at the world this way.

My comment is based on having taken part in many searches, but not video... It seems to me that a more familiar presentation may make for better scanning for anomalies...

Flipping the vedio(s) is already on the list of things to do.

Thanks for the comments.


Bill,

If the search does not lead to a successful outcome, post the GoPro video... with so many potential eyes watching the video, you never know who may be able to spot something.

Just a thought... Good luck.

Victor

The idea is to do exactly what you mention. Crowd Source the review of the videos.

We are having a website built as I type this to consolidate the video links and will then post it on as many social media sights as possible. Not to mention news outlets. (Bob Collins, are you following this?)
 
CAP

Does anyone know if CAP performed a cell phone forensics? CAP has the capability to track a cell phone signal, while it lasts, to assist in SAR.

For those of you that own Foreflight on your Ipad, there is a CAP grid search feature. If you have the GPS feature with the puck type devices, this will allow you to fly accurate separation grids and remain on target. If you can get a CAP member to assist, it might be well worth the safety instruction. We are all wanting to assist but safety is first in all searches. Ideally, one plane for each grid and skip a grid for the next plane. Second group goes up and flies the skipped grids. This way, you keep a grid separation between aircrews in the air. In the afternoon, begin flying the first grids again but at 90 degree angle to first grid to get a different view of the same area. (I.E. 1st grid search is north and south, 2nd grid search is east and west). Check for obstructions. Ideal is to fly 1000' AGL at 90-95 knots assuming no air restrictions exist. (Preserves and such).
This is tiring work so stay hydrated and take breaks between each grid. A break may just be going to a higher altitude to cool down and fly smooth for 10 minutes.
Ideally, have a ground base for radio communications and each plane check in every 30 minutes to report your position, when beginning the grid and when completed the grid. Keep a log of each aircraft. Flights must check in and out.
The suggestions above are not conclusive nor complete to duplicate entire search style of any SAR team.
This is a lot of work and I commend you for all your efforts. Fly safe and good luck.
Pat Garboden
Katy, TX
CAP member
RV9A
 
Yes, CAP was involved. As far as I know they got no pings on his phone.

One thing about cell phones is that I have learned to turn mine off when I get in the plane so searching for me that way will not work.
 
Thanks everyone for the help!

We had a successful flight and safe flight, except for maybe my landings. :rolleyes:

We started with six planes, three RV-9 tail draggers, an RV-9A, and RV-8 and a PA28-140. One plane dropped out due to a suspected mechanical (Not the Cherokee).

All planes were equipped with video cameras but due to technical issues, not all recorded their passes.

We have created a website and need to build it, along with links to the videos. I hope to have up by the end of the week and will post the URL then.

Thanks again everyone!
 
NTSB released the narative

The NTSB finally released the narrative on Ted's last flight.

No real cause was given but based on the report, it sounds possible that he had a fire and shut the fuel off and tried to turn around when a few trees got in his way.

Here is the report.

Thanks again for all the help!
 
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