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Fuel Tank Stuff To Buy

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DarinFred

Active Member
I am just about to start putting my fuel tanks together and I want to make sure that I get everything I need in one order from Vans. Here's what I have on the list so far...

ProSeal - 1 Quart.

Deluxe Fuel Caps - x2 Should have ordered this with the Wing Kit order. Will they take the old ones back?

Flop Tube - x1 Just in case I wanna set it up for inverted flight.

The tanks will have capacitance senders. Also, I want to put in provisions for a return line, but I think I can get the hardware for that from someplace other than Vans. Am I missing anything that I can only get from Van's here?

Thanks!

Jay
 
Get two quarts

Jay,

If you've never done tanks before then I would suggest getting two quarts of proseal. I used about a quart and a half on my 9a tanks.

Like Jim said earlier get a test kit.

Thanks,
 
Fearless said:
Jay,

If you've never done tanks before then I would suggest getting two quarts of proseal. I used about a quart and a half on my 9a tanks.

Like Jim said earlier get a test kit.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

I second this motion. Unless you are very tight with the proseal, you will need more. Vans has the best price but might as well go ahead and get two.

Some do it with one, but I can't see how. I used 1 and 1/2 quart kits. I used allot less on the second but I would concider this the minimum for me to feel comfortable that they won't leak.

If you have not bought tank dies, save your money, you don't need them.

Many who put in flop tubes say they would not bother to do it again including people who do normal RV aero... After reading their comments, I never gave it another thought.

Also, Vans sez in the directions to mix up two or three golf ball sized balls of proseal.... Not! That is way way way too much. I mixed no more than 40 grams per internal rib and 60 grams per end rib on the second tank. I used more on the first but it was a waste. I used about 120 grams on the baffle. When you get to the baffle, make sure you have plenty of time (at least 4 hours) to do this start to finish. It takes a long time just to put in all the pop rivets. You will have at least an hours worth of cleco's to clean after the work is done.

Also make sure you have plenty of large and small popcicle sticks. And at least 50 pairs of gloves and a gallon of MEK. I used tons of gloves but it makes less mess if you change them often. Put on two pair at a time so you always have one layer of protection. MEK eats all types of gloves but it seems that plain old latex holds up the best (but still not great). I tried all types but most of them melt down fast. Use a mask rated for organic vapors when dealing with the MEK if you don't you will get high as a kite and kill some lung and brain cells.
 
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Ditto all that

Ditto everything Brian said.

2- quarts
His weight measurements are dead-on what I used as well.
Yes, 1 Gal MEK and three sh....er fertilizer loads of latex gloves. Wear two pair at a time, change often. For a little dot of proseal on the glove, you can clean with MEK. Really messy, shed one pair and put on another.


I would only add several medium sized slip leur (sp?) syringes from your local veterinary supply house, or Tractor Supply Co. The slip leur is a tapered, non-locking nozzle that is perfect for laying down a bead of proseal. I beleive I used the 12ml size.
 
stuff I bought

I just finished both tanks, built at once with no leaks. I'd recommend:
2 quarts of Proseal
a Semco gun ($18 on ebay)
tubes and nozzles for the Semco (<$1 each, http://www.sealpakcoinc.com/)
a digital scale to weigh sealant (kitchen store)
hard plastic cups (Sam's club)
nitrile gloves (2 boxes, Sam's club)
metal spoons to mix sealant ($1 for 10, Wal-Mart)
Fuel Tank Access Sealant for the sender / access plate (CS3330?, also from seakpak)
Cad plated allen head screws for access plate & sealer (GAH, I'll get part number)
Washers to go under the screws (GAH, I'll get part number)
A ground wire for the fuel tank level sender.

I'll edit this post tonight and add a few more things that worked for me.

Good luck!
 
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Extra sealant as others mentioned. On my RV-9A, I needed extra even with trying to be conservative. I prefer the cartridges (less mess, but more costly), but would load bulk sealant in some blank cartridges I bought from Spruce and use them in my sealant gun I bought from Van's. Far less mess than spreading initially with popsicle sticks. And, you must read Rick Galati's fay sealing method - I did it for the second tank, and it was FAR SUPERIOR to the standard method for the first tank. Easier, far less mess. Also, he or someone recommended reaming the countersink holes slightly before riveting - it removes residual partially cured proseal, and makes for a more flush rivet. I did this on the second tank - beautiful flush rivets compared to the first tank that were slightly proud.
Here is Rick's link:
http://rickgalati.com/subpage9.html
 
Good stuff!

Exactly what I need guys! Thanks for the help!

Carl, does using the reamer on the countersunk holes negate the need for the tank dimple dies? I have a set of tank dimples, but would rather not use them if I don't need to...

Thanks again and keep the advise coming!

Jay
 
MEK replacement

I personally prefer to use Acetone instead of MEK. I figure if women use it to soak there fingers in to remove finger nails, paint ect, it must not be too bad for you. I think you will find that it works just about as good as MEK and you wont worry (as much) about rotting your liver.
No there are occasions that the MEK comes out when the acetone wont cut it but for the most part I use Acetone.
Cant take credit for this tip.....a friend composite builder pointed the way.
 
N282RV said:
I personally prefer to use Acetone instead of MEK. I figure if women use it to soak there fingers in to remove finger nails, paint ect, it must not be too bad for you. I think you will find that it works just about as good as MEK and you wont worry (as much) about rotting your liver.
No there are occasions that the MEK comes out when the acetone wont cut it but for the most part I use Acetone.
Cant take credit for this tip.....a friend composite builder pointed the way.
Click to expand...


Read around, lots of info out there that dispute that Acetone is safer than MEK. They are both bad! Use proper respirators, eye protection and gloves no matter what!
 
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One other thing to add to the list...

Boxes and boxes of rubber gloves!

The second I would get Proseal on my gloves, I would pitch 'em and put on a new pair.

This helped keep my tools clean-ish.
 
fuel cap upgrade?

DarinFred said:
Deluxe Fuel Caps - x2 Should have ordered this with the Wing Kit order. Will they take the old ones back?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering the same thing. Will Van's exchange the standard fuel caps for the deluxe ones? Or should I just eat the cost and/or sell them here on VAF?
 
Polysulfide A or B?

Hi all:

Has anyone tried using the less viscous A mixture instead of the B? Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.
 
Van's took back my standard tank caps, no problem, in exchange for the deluxe caps.

I've got some of the type A sealant which I plan to use for spotting the rivet heads inside the tanks. But I haven't used it yet.

Also, there's an access door sealant which you can use on the hatch to ensure that if necessary you can open it up again. I've read that people manage just fine with the normal type B sealant but it might be worth considering.
http://www.skygeek.com/flamemaster-cs-3330-cl-low-adhesion-sealant.html

Dave
 
Infopipe said:
Hi all:

Has anyone tried using the less viscous A mixture instead of the B? Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.
Click to expand...

'A' is generally used as a topcoat, do a good job (and be generous) with 'B' and you don't need the 'A'. Peeling slosh was a topcoat recommended back in the day, improper prep for topcoats can easily lead to peeling as many folks can attest to.
 
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Get a good long metal spoon to reach into the bottom of the can.

Get a box of toothpicks as well as popsicle sticks; toothpicks are good for scooping out the hardener (you don't use much) and for dabbing sealant into each rivet hole (much easier than dipping the tiny rivets). A digital scale is a must. Get a good stack of small plastic plates for mixing your sealant.

I just used popsicle sticks like spreading icing, rather than bags or sealant guns. A gloved fingertip worked best for filleting and covering shop heads.

Everyone else swears by it, but I found the "fay sealing" method no less messy than the regular way. But then, I'm a fairly messy worker, and somehow manage to make a mess even while dimpling :eek:

I also found that dimpling the baffle and skin made for neater rivets than countersinking the skin as called for in the instructions, and I had no problem sliding it into place. If you do this, you'll want to take an extra dimple die and grind down part of it so you don't deform the radius.
 
"A" sealnt is not a "top coat" sealant. The letter (A,B,C) are classifications of viscosity. "A" sealant is often used when manufacturing wings (which are also fuel tanks) on heavy aircraft because the lower viscosity allows the sealant to displace easily when large surface area parts are fastened together. Sealant application between structural menbers is referred to as a "Fay Seal" Using "B" sealant on large surface area parts sometimes results in diffculty fitting parts, or gaps between structural members. Class A sealant is also usefull for injecting into gaps and voids when re-sealing integral fuel tank leaks if the preperation is performed correctly.

In this application I do not see an advantage to using "A" sealnt. Sealant application around the edges of adjoining structural menbers is referred to as a "Fillet Seal" When using class A sealant it is nice to be able to brush a smooth fillet seal, but it can also run and make a mess if you are not careful.
 
I guess we could argue semantics but brush grade sealants in my world were only used as topcoats, they were never used as a fay surface sealant because they are too thin. 'B' sealants were used mostly for repairs while 'C' was used for building new fuel tanks or large repairs where additional assy time was required.


Class A or Brush Grade Sealant

A thin viscosity (150-500 Poise) sealant designed for brush application. Most U.S. specifications designate this grade as Class A (typically the thickness of cold chocolate syrup)

Class B or Extrusion Grade Sealant

Higher viscosity sealants (8,000-16,000 Poise), designed for application by extrusion via a pneumatic Semco® gun. This grade usually is used for forming fillets and sealing on vertical surfaces where low slump/sag is required. Most specifications will designate these as Class B Sealants. (typically the thickness of peanut butter)

Class C or Extrusion Grade Sealant

Medium viscosity sealant (1000-4000 Poise) designed for application by a roller or combed tooth spreader. This grade is most often specified for fay surface sealing. Often referred to as Class C, or Fay Surface sealants. (typically the thickness of sour cream)
 
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Once you put sealron your tank, DO NOT clean off excess proseal with MEK or anything else, even after the proseal dries. It may cause leaks later on. If you have globs of the stuff on your tank surface, let it dry for a week or two and sand it down.

My left tank developed leaks on the top of the left tank, which blistered the paint, a year and a half after it was painted. That was the only surface I cleaned with MEK. It is not worth the risk.
 
I would not say it is semantics when you say that class A sealant is a "top coat" sealant and then compare it to slosh sealant which peels that you also refer to as a "top coat sealant. Viscosity of the sealant (class A, class B) has nothing to do with adhesion properties or sealant strength (durometer) when the sealant is fully cured.

Gary Baker showed some pictures on his photo site https://plus.google.com/photos/10774...30839268159073
that appear to have both A (grey) and B (black). Anyone know if that was the case. I have not asked Gary directly.
Today 12:39 PM
Click to expand...

The sealants we are referring to are all two part kits. Part A is the sealant, and part B is the hardener. Others were referring to classifications of sealnt viscosity (class A, class B).

http://www.ppg.com/coatings/aerospace/sealants1/pr_1440_class_b.pdf
 
Mike H said:
I would not say it is semantics when you say that class A sealant is a "top coat" sealant and then compare it to slosh sealant which peels that you also refer to as a "top coat sealant. Viscosity of the sealant (class A, class B) has nothing to do with adhesion properties or sealant strength (durometer) when the sealant is fully cured.
Click to expand...

Perhaps its not exactly the same as the Buna N top coats but it's still used as a top coat.
(My point in the beginning was that if not properly applied which requires proper surface prep it can peel)

From PPG:
Class A is a low density, aircraft fuel tank and
general purpose sealant. It has a service temperature
range from -54°C to 121°C ( -65°F to 250°F). This
material is designed for brush sealing of fasteners in
fuel tanks and other aircraft fuselage sealing applications.

My last post on this topic:D
 
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