What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

LED wig-wag controller

jbDC9

Well Known Member
To the electric gurus here;

I upgraded my landing lights to Whelen LEDs two years ago, which rendered my Nuckolls designed wig wag circuit inop. I've read here that I could put a resistor across each light to increase the load and "jump start" the relay, or... I found this;

http://www.grote.com/products/44030-solid-state-electronic-flasher-alternating-flasher/

It's a solid state flasher designed to work with LEDs; looks like it should work and would be an easy replacement on my original mechanical relay. Has anyone used this yet? Any pros or cons? Two resistors would be cheaper, but seems like a band-aid fix compared to having a new solid state relay...

Thanks!
 
When ever you see an input voltage "Voltage Amp: 12V - 24V / 12A max" where the voltage spread is across a wide voltage range, it should raise a red flag regarding noise on your com. This is common among a wide variety of LED manufactures.
This one would be guaranteed noise free and designed specifically for LED landing lights and aircraft for noise free operation.

wig-wag.jpg
 
When ever you see an input voltage "Voltage Amp: 12V - 24V / 12A max" where the voltage spread is across a wide voltage range, it should raise a red flag regarding noise on your com. This is common among a wide variety of LED manufactures.
This one would be guaranteed noise free and designed specifically for LED landing lights and aircraft for noise free operation.

wig-wag.jpg

Kahuna,

Would the Whelen LED wig-wag controller work with the Baja Designs Pro LED lights?
 
Kahuna,

Would the Whelen LED wig-wag controller work with the Baja Designs Pro LED lights?



Yes. However, the noise free is for the wig wag controller. NOT the Baja lights. The Baja lights are known to be very noisy! You can read about the noise complaints here. This will NOT help your Baja noise problems. But this unit will NOT generate any noise itself.
 
My Rigid LEDs are silent. The $40 Kuntzleman wig wag is also silent. It is fine under 3 Amps each light. I did not ask him if it could handle 4 or 5 amps.
 
I am using the Kuntzleman

on my Whelen Par 46 LEDs and it works just fine --- I keep them "wagging" the entire time I am flying.

Ron
 
My Baha's are dead silent. Did nothing special. Had a hot and a ground back to my Forrest of tabs. Fake news?
 
When ever you see an input voltage "Voltage Amp: 12V - 24V / 12A max" where the voltage spread is across a wide voltage range, it should raise a red flag regarding noise on your com.

What an interesting blanket statement, considering the input voltage range labeled on the Whelen unit attached immediately afterward.
 
I get calls weekly from folks who have installed many different LED units and the calls follow a pattern. My xyz I bought and installed is noisy. How do I fix it?

The reasons for the noise are generally the same. The reasons why these LED power drivers are noisy have been reviewed and discussed here before. It is possible for a manufacturer to design for quiet if your focused on it. But you will find that automotive or consumer use LED devices are not designed for quiet as they just don't need to be. Its a lot more expensive to design and manufacture for quiet.

Some manufactures devices have a higher noise on com rate than others.
If your concerned about noise in your com from LED devices, there is one thing you can look at that will give you a hint of the risk. Look at the input voltage. If its a variable input voltage, there is a risk for sure. It does not mean it will. It just means that the risk goes up. When you put a scope on these things, you will scream a 'yikes' at the noise they generate.

When your in the business of lighting, you hear a lot from people in the field with their problems. The single biggest problem I get of these support calls is from noise in the com. And these are not calls from products I have sold them. I don't mind these calls. They result in the customer replacing them with units that will solve their problem.

I can not think of a single call I have received ever of noise in the com from any product I have ever sold. There are however, a lot of frustrated owners who have installed xyz and have chased noise for many hours only to discover its inherent in the device and they have to pull them out.

Any device you install that has a variable input voltage powering something, runs this risk and is the reason for my note to the OP. The Whelen unit is designed for aircraft and is not a power driving unit and does not have any com noise.
 
Funny that you ask that question; I'm upgrading my Whelen LEDs to Baja Squadron Pros...

What wig-wag LED controllers are being used sucessfully with the Baja Squadrons?

Anyone have any experience with the Grote 44030 flasher identified in post #1 by the op?
 
What wig-wag LED controllers are being used sucessfully with the Baja Squadrons?

Anyone have any experience with the Grote 44030 flasher identified in post #1 by the op?

I used the Tridon EL13A2 (available via Amazon for $16) flasher. It's not solid state, but it has worked flawlessly since 2013. Even if it does break, it's only $16 to fix! You do need some resistors to drive LED's. See below for how I did it.

http://rvplane.com/?categoryid=10000&dayid=1145
 
First, I run the Baja Squadrons and have 0 noise issues. Power is an un-shielded wire with an airframe ground. I do agree that many of the cheaper lights generate noise, but the Baja is a well designed unit without noise.

Second, I was hoping to keep the same wiring from my incadescent wig wag circuit. I tried the EL13A2 and it did not work for me. I ended up with this controller for $12:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JXLHMTO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This worked very well, but requires moderate re-wiring of your wig wag circuit. You have to feed it 12 volts on the third pin. This activates the flashing and alternately sends that power to the two other pins. You bridge these two pins to you light feeds, but need to be sure your lights aren't receiving 12v from another source when the wig wig is active. It doesn't use the load of the light circuit to alternate the relay like the EL13A2. Let me know if you need the wiring diagram. I use a DPDT ON-OFF-ON switch (up is on and down is wig wag - Center is off) and can still be used with this relay. This arrangement makes it easy to provide two distinct power paths to the lights. One direct and the other through the wig wag.

You can alternatively keep all three pins active and switch the ground (the black wire hanging from it) to activate the relay. This would work better for a two switch setup.

I should add that I did not put resistors at the lights when I tried the EL13A2. The mfg told me I wouldn't need them at the 3-4 amp draw of the Baja. I did not want to increase the amp draw, so didn't proceed down that path.

Larry
 
Last edited:
To the electric gurus here;

I upgraded my landing lights to Whelen LEDs two years ago, which rendered my Nuckolls designed wig wag circuit inop. I've read here that I could put a resistor across each light to increase the load and "jump start" the relay, or... I found this;

http://www.grote.com/products/44030-solid-state-electronic-flasher-alternating-flasher/

It's a solid state flasher designed to work with LEDs; looks like it should work and would be an easy replacement on my original mechanical relay. Has anyone used this yet? Any pros or cons? Two resistors would be cheaper, but seems like a band-aid fix compared to having a new solid state relay...

Thanks!

This is not a direct replacement for your current relay, assuming you are using what Bob recommended. I didn't see a schematic on their page, but seeing the wiring, I believe it will work just like the solid state relay that I referenced in my previous post. Using this style of flasher will require re-wiring of your wig-wag circuit at the panel.

The black is a ground. The red is the 12v light input and flasher power. The two greens are the alternating light outputs. Whenever 12v and a ground are provided, the 12v input is alternately provided to the two green leads. Your currently relay just bridges on the two light outputs and uses the power input provided on the third pin to activate the double throw relay and mechanical, quasi-timer circuit inside the flasher and alternately send that power to the two light ciruits. However, it doesn't have a separate ground path, but instead uses the load of the lights to energize the coil circuit and timer. These circuits are designed for resistive lighting and don't work with electronic power supplies found in LED lights.

If you add resistors, be sure you understand how many watts they will flow and size the resistors appropriately.

Larry
 
Last edited:
For those who asked, here are drawings. This one would be for a common DPDT ON-OFF-ON switch. Switch up is normal lights and switch down is wig wag. Center position is off.

2iswetc.jpg
[/IMG]

For those liking the Aeroelectric approach with two switches can use this diagram. SPST switch activates the light circuit and the DPDT ON-ON switch determines if lights are on (DOWN) or wig wig (UP). This could also be configured in a way that a wig wag switch could turn on the wig wag without turning on the normal lights first. However, you have to decide which action you get when you inadvertently turn both on.

33a749y.jpg


Hope this helps.

Larry
 
Last edited:
What an interesting blanket statement, considering the input voltage range labeled on the Whelen unit attached immediately afterward.

Yeah, I kinda thought the same thing, the voltage specs he mentioned for the Grote controller from the web page is exactly the same as the Whelen numbers, but... look at the Grote controller pic, the numbers printed there are 9-32V. Maybe that's what Kahuna was referencing.
 
LED Wig-Wag controller

Just as a note of reference you can isolate the LED lights from the wig-wag controller by adding an inexpensive auto relay between the controller and lights. This way it does't matter which controller is used as it is turning on and off the relay and not transferring power through the controller. Might add a few ounces of wight. Wire the 12VDC direct from the back side of the switch directly to normally open of auto relay. The power for lights by-passes the controller.

https://www.amazon.com/Absolute-RLS125-12-VCD-Automotive-Relay/dp/B0002KR9GG
 
Back
Top