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  #11  
Old 11-02-2019, 10:11 PM
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MrNomad MrNomad is offline
 
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Default thx for the replies

Very helpful.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:22 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Sorry for the loss of your friend and condolences to all friends and family.

Last part of report is odd, illogical.... This was a clear day... with light winds and they just put this at the end of the report:[/b][/i][Edit: My mistake it was night]
"Spatial Disorientation & Situational Awareness

According to the FAA publication Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (PHAK, FAA-H-8083-25):

Spatial disorientation specifically refers to the lack of orientation with regard to the position, attitude, or movement of the airplane in space…. During flight in visual meteorological conditions (VMC), the eyes are the major orientation source and usually prevail over false sensations from other sensory systems. When these visual cues are taken away… false sensations can cause a pilot to quickly become disoriented.

The handbook then stated that "Prevention is usually the best remedy for spatial disorientation. Unless a pilot has many hours of training in instrument flight, flight in reduced visibility or at night when the horizon is not visible should be avoided."

The handbook defined situational awareness as the "accurate perception of the operational and environmental factors that affect the airplane, pilot, and passengers during a specific period of time." The handbook stated that a situationally aware pilot "has an overview of the total operation and is not fixated on one perceived significant factor." The handbook stated that "some of the elements inside the airplane to be considered are the status of airplane systems," and cautioned that "an awareness of the environmental conditions of the flight, such as spatial orientation of the airplane, and its relationship to terrain… and airspace must be maintained."


VMC in the pattern it is unlikely there was LOC due to spacial disorientation in my opinion as a CFI. This statement vexes me. Was there a lawsuit? I know there was a C152 accident years ago (in Florida I recall) that resulted in huge awards against Cessna, Lycoming, Marvel Schebler, FBO and anyone else they could think of to sue.....
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 11-13-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:57 PM
mdevans9 mdevans9 is online now
 
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From the report, "Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed"

Illogical? Spatial disorientation - night, few lights, right hand turn in a high wing airplane. Sorry, not to me.

Merrill
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:51 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdevans9 View Post
From the report, "Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed"

Illogical? Spatial disorientation - night, few lights, right hand turn in a high wing airplane. Sorry, not to me.

Merrill
Thanks I missed the night part. I like how you told me. Ha ha. Not sure what right turn in high wing has to do with it, if you have horizon in your windscreen. If the wing blocks the only reference to ground/horizon yes I can see that being a factor. May be more relevant:

I looked up moon phase at Tehachapi Municipal Airport (KTSP), on that date (google is amazing). It was a very dark night, 1.9% illumination (full moon is 99%).*

The airport is in a rural mountainous area with uneven Horizon and not a lot of ground lights.

He was fairly low time pilot but current and flew a cross country at night in/out of that airport the month before. He had 12 hours of night time.

*As a CFI, early on I did a night flight with student on a full moon night. I cut the flight short. You could see everything. The next night flight a few weeks later it was almost moonless. I had him do touch and goes at an airport away from city lights. Rotating into the dark was an eye opener for him. I used the integrated method and always had my students flying by instruments and visually together always, even day VFR. Doing night TG's at the city airport was less challenging since it was awash with lights.

Lesson dark moonless night taking off into a black hole be ready to fly instruments. I remember taking off from Sedona AZ and it was pitch black. Early in my flying, newly minted Pvt with about the same hours as this Gentleman, took off from New Orleans Lake Front Airport over Lake Pontchartrain. It was pitch black. I remember getting on instruments as my instructor taught me. Once I turned cross wind and went back towards shore and city lights I was fine. In years since there have been a few LOC accidents off of New Orleans Lack Front due to spacial disorientation.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 11-11-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:52 PM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot View Post
Thanks I missed the night part. I like how you told me. Ha ha. Not sure what right turn in high wing has to do with it, if you have horizon in your windscreen. If the wing blocks the only reference to ground/horizon yes I can see that being a factor. May be more relevant:

I looked up moon phase at Tehachapi Municipal Airport (KTSP), on that date (google is amazing). It was a very dark night, 1.9% illumination (full moon is 99%).*

The airport is in a rural mountainous area with uneven Horizon and not a lot of ground lights.

He was fairly low time pilot but current and flew a cross country at night in/out of that airport the month before. He had 12 hours of night time.

*As a CFI, early on I did a night flight with student on a full moon night. I cut the flight short. You could see everything. The next night flight a few weeks later it was almost moonless. I had him do touch and goes at an airport away from city lights. Rotating into the dark was an eye opener for him. I used the integrated method and always had my students flying by instruments and visually together always, even day VFR. Doing night TG's at the city airport was less challenging since it was awash with lights.

Lesson dark moonless night taking off into a black hole be ready to fly instruments. I remember taking off from Sedona AZ and it was pitch black. Early in my flying, newly minted Pvt with about the same hours as this Gentleman, took off from New Orleans Lake Front Airport over Lake Pontchartrain. It was pitch black. I remember getting on instruments as my instructor taught me. Once I turned cross wind and went back towards shore and city lights I was fine. In years since there have been a few LOC accidents off of New Orleans Lack Front due to spacial disorientation.
I would say that a pilot with just 12 hours of night flight time flying into Tehachapi on a dark, moonless night could truly be challenged. Tehachapi airport is located near the edge of a bowl and there are some hills near the airport that could give some very misleading visual indicators in the dark, especially with the spotty rural lighting in the vicinity.

Skylor
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