RV-8A Question

I am currently in the market for a RV-8A or 7A (or possibly 7). I have a son that is just starting to fly in a 172. My intention is to let him get his private and a fair amount of flight time in the 172. My question for the RV-8A crowd is how much visibility do you have from the back of a 8A? Once my son has a base of flying experience would I be able to sit in the back and land (if required) the 8A when fly son is flying up front? I've got plenty of experience myself (22 years military) 11 active /11 reserve / military instructor, and 18+ years at a major airline. I've sat in the back of a RV-8 and quickly realized that the visibility to land that from the back wasn't something I'd be interested in. I've never had the opportunity to fly in the back (or even sit in) a RV-8A. I'm interested in your opinions on how the visibility is / difficulty of landing a 8A from the back seat. Again, this wouldn't be something I would put him in until after he finished his private and really learned how to fly / land in the 172. I know the 7 or 7A is the easy solution but selfishly I would like the 8 for the tandem seating when I'm not worried about who is sitting behind me.
Thanks in advance for you inputs.

The problem with the 8 or the 8A is that the rear rudder pedals are pretty much useless when landing. (ask me how I know! Ouch!) I would not attempt to instruct from the back of an 8! Just my opinion.
I would stick with a 7 or 7A withe dual brakes for now.
Good luck
Nordo

An old thread is here for your reference - this does not address the 8A vs the 8, but it does address the idea of full controls in the back vs not, and what those are good for, what minimum experience you'd want in the front if you are the "PIC" from the back, etc.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=3976

I trained with Bruce Bohannon on his fully equipped RV-8 with rear upgraded pedals and brakes for my conventional gear 8 check out. He takes folks up regularly who are getting transitions in the 8 and he's over seeing it from the back seat. He's an awesome pilot and good at his craft but it still takes some careful upgrades for rear pedals and brakes to be completely safe to do that sort of thing.

The 8A looks cool, reminds me of a Texan II. It would be awesome to have a really nice full set of functional controls in the back. I've been a passenger and flown from the back seat of an 8A but I have not landed the 8A. Keep in mind, in flight, you will never know if you are an 8 or an 8A. As far as visibility goes, just take out the taxi and transition to and from flying and it's the same airplane as far as visibility from the back. The 8A is a differential steering airplane for NWS. So to be safe, you'd have to figure out the brakes and pedals from that seat. It's been done only a few times, yet talked about a whole lot. I have wanted to do it in mine but I'm pretty sure I won't due to the complexity and not wanting to fly my conventional 8 from the back. Sure they both have their individual areas to take care in operations as any airplane will. The nose wheel model will bite too, if landed flat or the nose wheel comes down hard after landing nose high, and porpoised. So it's not a free lunch there either and a back seat PIC / safety pilot would have to have the ability to take over in a variety of conditions.

Another thought

I think that the -8A is an VERY easy plane to land, tracks right down the runway, visibility is great. All of this depends, of course, on being "on speed and on glideslope". If you are a decent coach, and he is a decent pilot, and he gets some transition training I think you will love flying the airplane together.

Having the throttle in the rear makes going around when things don't look good under your control

Give the kid a chance!

Back seat

I have an eight and have given transition training to someone using the puck rudder pedals. It's not ideal at all due to the pedals, lack off brakes, and lack of most engine controls so it would be very difficult to shut it down in case of an emergency such as a runway departure scenario. As far as visibility is concerned from the back seat, it's better than the pilot seat in most biplanes and about equivalent to most any other low wing aerobat that you normally fly from the back.

I started out in the front seat for an hour and let the student get used to flying from the back, had the student do several landings from the back until it looked like we were reasonably going to stay on the runway, then swapped seats. After that, the student's front seat performance was significantly better and I only needed to make minor corrections from the back.

It is not ideal and if doing it often I'd want real rudder pedals with brakes and a full quadrant to control the engine. I'd also consider a stick made to grab the canopy release from the back. After an accident you might not be able to crawl up there and open it. Just my thoughts. I enjoy the view from the back, just not the lack of controls.

A few other thoughts. There are real advantages of having the pilot seat in the back. Mainly, once you get used to the stick force per "g" it doesn't change much by adding a front seat passenger. By having the pilot seat up front we get great visibility, but drastically changing flight characteristics by adding weight farther aft. Anybody checking out someone in a tandem RV should make the student aware of the aerobatic weight limits yet lighter and lighter elevator control as the weight is increased and cg moves aft.

I had a very experienced test pilot/RV3 owner check me out in my 8. I have the button type rear seat rudder pedals and throttle, no brakes. He was pretty much just an advisor in the back though and even warned me that if I lost it I was pretty much on my own. I had about 600 hours tail wheel time in my Champ at the time that maybe helped. 130 hr in the 8 now and still learning .