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  #21  
Old 05-02-2018, 10:23 PM
seward747 seward747 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 136
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Seems like most everyone's got an opinion in this radio call thing. What say we all use the last page of the AC, titled Advisory Circular Feedback Form, and tell them what we the users think would improve the system?

Doug
Seattle area
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  #22  
Old 05-03-2018, 06:18 AM
climberrn climberrn is offline
 
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Location: Carson City, NV
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The type of aircraft and color identification makes a lot more sense at non towered airports. I have NEVER been able to read another tail number in flight. When entering and planning the pattern N123A doesn’t tell me if they are flying a wide pattern at 120KTS or dropping in at 70. Big difference when following a trike or cub, and a fast glass or RV. How do you know if the call from N123A was the trike or Citation that you know are in the area??

Not debating the calls regulated at towered airports or talking to ATC. They always ask for type anyway.
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  #23  
Old 05-03-2018, 08:00 AM
Mark H Mark H is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
It should be in your Operating Limitations, which make your airworthiness valid, so the must be followed.
The only relevant statement in my Operating Limitations is item 7. It reads:

"When filing a flight plan, the experimental nature of this aircraft must be listed in the remarks section."


There is actually nothing in my Operating Limitations about radio use. I know it used to be included as Scott eluded. My certificate was issued in October. Are my Operating Limitations unique? Does this mean the FAA is subtly changing their opinion on this as it pertains to towered controlled airports?

It is clear the FAA and FCC want us to identify type and N-number of aircraft. If I choose to drive 45 when the speed limit is posted 40, then all can I say when the officer pulls me over is "guilty". I know the law, even if choose not to follow it. The use of the word "Experimental" when making a radio call is much less clear to me.
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  #24  
Old 05-03-2018, 08:20 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 3,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark H View Post
The only relevant statement in my Operating Limitations is item 7. It reads:

"When filing a flight plan, the experimental nature of this aircraft must be listed in the remarks section."


There is actually nothing in my Operating Limitations about radio use. I know it used to be included as Scott eluded. My certificate was issued in October. Are my Operating Limitations unique? Does this mean the FAA is subtly changing their opinion on this as it pertains to towered controlled airports?

It is clear the FAA and FCC want us to identify type and N-number of aircraft. If I choose to drive 45 when the speed limit is posted 40, then all can I say when the officer pulls me over is "guilty". I know the law, even if choose not to follow it. The use of the word "Experimental" when making a radio call is much less clear to me.
The Op Lims for my 1999 RV-6 has the comment about including "experimental" in the initial radio call to a control tower.

The Op Lims for my 2016 Fokker replica does not have that comment but does state that "experimental" is to be noted in flight plans.

So yes, the FAA's stance on this matter has changed over the years.
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  #25  
Old 05-03-2018, 08:56 AM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
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Thinking back on the decades of flying at non-towered fields, I only identify an N-number called over the radio with a plane when it's someone I know very well. The rest of the time, all I hear is, "Anytown traffic, Piper blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah, left base, runway 14, Anytown." More than one Piper - which occurs fairly often - and I just don't keep up with the different planes by N-number. Sometimes I can keep up with the different voices, but when a second pilot/cfi calls out, that tosses out that differentiation.

What would be better is to simply say, "Anytown traffic, Piper turning base, runway 14, Anytown." Or, "...blue and white piper turning base."
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  #26  
Old 05-03-2018, 09:40 AM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
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Location: Port Orange, Fl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Pass View Post
What would be better is to simply say, "Anytown traffic, Piper turning base, runway 14, Anytown." Or, "...blue and white piper turning base."
To tell the honest truth, it probably doesn't matter. I use the color & type with my radio calls too but it doesn't take much distance before we lose the ability to distinguish colors so my "red RV" probably just looks black to most others in the area if they can see me at all.
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  #27  
Old 05-03-2018, 10:28 AM
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fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
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I got in the habit of saying "Experimental RV" since someone pointed out years ago that "RV" sounds a lot like "Army".

I also subscribe to the color call out as it gives me a better chance of being differentiated from the other RV's or low wings. When there are more than one Cessna in the pattern I am always fearful I'm looking at the wrong one and the other might be right above/below me, as the students are always just using the N-number.
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2018, 04:09 PM
Bicyclops Bicyclops is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: LA, California
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And...folks often seem to report what they see way out in front of them as their current position. Sometimes makes them really hard to find. I was trying to figure out one time, where the Bonanza was who I had heard reporting downwind and final. I called and asked him where he was and he reported 5 mile final. This was at an airport with a 600' AGL pattern altitude, normally flown very close in for terrain clearance.

Then there was the guy that tried to kill me flying the opposite pattern, NORDO. You haven't lived until you've done a full flap go-around, 2 up, in a C-150 at about 10000' density altitude starting about 20 feet from landing on an idiot. "Radio isn't required at a non-towered airport", he said when I tracked him down at the FBO. Also, "How was I supposed to know it isn't left traffic here?"

Ed Holyoke
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2018, 08:06 PM
dabney dabney is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: valencia, ca
Posts: 152
Default Anti-authority?

Isn't the objective of giving position reports at non-towered airports to avoid a mid-air collision?? Giving your N number is of little value in accomplishing that. Giving the type of plane and color gives other aircraft in the vicinity of the airport a chance to identify your aircraft from other Cessnas or RV's etc.

Call that anti-authority if you must, but it may prevent a mid-air

Also, the only thing worst than no position report is an inaccurate position report. Most of the "uncomfortable proximity" situations I have experienced occurred when I was searching the sky where a pilot said he was only to find out later that he was someplace else. At least with no position report you are scanning the entire area for traffic and your scan is not diverted to the wrong place.

I do concur with the post that views that disagree with the AC should be passed along to the FAA for what that is worth.
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2018, 08:34 PM
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catmandu catmandu is offline
 
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Dabney, you are spot on.

And forgive me, 'Anti-authority attitude' is a pet peeve, I tried to relay my sarcasm with the roll eyes, but the limitations and lamentations of this here interwebs makes it hard to do so (Google 'Anti-authority attitude' and you will be hard pressed to find any reference to this 'thing' outside of the FAA).

Personally, all I try to do is build a picture in my mind when I am at an uncontrolled field. I could care less what one calls oneself, as long as one is consistent in said calls and does a reasonable job of reporting one's position. I'll figure out the relative speeds on my own, based on the calls. Extras like saying "Cub" and "Meridian" versus "Piper" do help build that picture.

My failing eyeballs have problems just spotting airplanes, let alone identifying airplanes. I rely more on the mental situational awareness than anything.

I tend towards "Experimental 28RV" hoping the "RV" gives others awareness. Still a tough call, as the home field has a bunch of -12's, so the "RV" tag could be as much as a 30 KIAS difference in pattern speeds. The -12's do tend to use "Light Sport" in their calls, so that helps.
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