Van's Air Force
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John Deer Voltage Regulator
- Thread starter n233va
- Start date
Bob,
I am still on my original Ducati at 165 hours and watching it closely. I have a new Ducati and John Deere on the shelf just in case.
It sounds like both your Ducati's have been on the firewall, with the air tube from the plenum. Correct? I am not a fan of having the VR in the cockpit. I have a friend with years and years of Kitfox time and VR in the cockpit. He has had 5 fail over the years and has had them expel thin white cloud of stuff. Not toxic or vision impairing, but alarming none the less. He was not a fan of the VR in the cockpit.
I too am interested to hear how the in cockpit VR's fair over time. Anyone?
I am still on my original Ducati at 165 hours and watching it closely. I have a new Ducati and John Deere on the shelf just in case.
It sounds like both your Ducati's have been on the firewall, with the air tube from the plenum. Correct? I am not a fan of having the VR in the cockpit. I have a friend with years and years of Kitfox time and VR in the cockpit. He has had 5 fail over the years and has had them expel thin white cloud of stuff. Not toxic or vision impairing, but alarming none the less. He was not a fan of the VR in the cockpit.
I too am interested to hear how the in cockpit VR's fair over time. Anyone?
I have built two 12's, one with the vr under the cowl and my current one has it in the cockpit. The first vr on my early 12 lasted 200 hrs and when I sold it at 330 hrs. It was on it's 2nd vr.
The first vr on my current 12 (mounted in cockpit) lasted 150 hours. I subsequently installed a jd and it lasted 60 hours. It doesn't appear that the new location is an improvement. I am currently using another jd, but I have a small cooling fan blowing on the fins. This is an experiment and if it does not work I am relocating it under the cowling, possibly near the open hole in the cowling.
My advice? Carry a spare. I recently had a failure 500 miles from home and had it fixed in 15 minutes.
The first vr on my current 12 (mounted in cockpit) lasted 150 hours. I subsequently installed a jd and it lasted 60 hours. It doesn't appear that the new location is an improvement. I am currently using another jd, but I have a small cooling fan blowing on the fins. This is an experiment and if it does not work I am relocating it under the cowling, possibly near the open hole in the cowling.
My advice? Carry a spare. I recently had a failure 500 miles from home and had it fixed in 15 minutes.
DaleB
Well Known Member
Yes. Mine fried (in flight, nice burnt plastic smell in cockpit) after probably less than 10 hours. Fortunately the voltage only went to about 16V or so, then settled back down to 14. We had just taken off a couple of minutes earlier, so I returned to the airport and landed.
Given the experience of others, I'm guessing it was infant mortality. No way to tell, since all of them seem to come from China and all appear to be the same part -- but from how many different sources? It's anyone's guess. I may try another one, but not until next year. I don't like the output or cost of the Ducati regulator, but my confidence in the JD replacement clone is very, very low.
Driftdown
Well Known Member
Geez guys . . . what is going on with these things?
This VR anomaly appears to be RV-12 specific, as other fleets have the VR failures much less frequently.
I hope all of you with failures are reporting each failure to Rotax. There is a downloadable Rotax form for reporting such items.
They can't fix it . . . if they don't know it's happening.
Astounding.
This VR anomaly appears to be RV-12 specific, as other fleets have the VR failures much less frequently.
I hope all of you with failures are reporting each failure to Rotax. There is a downloadable Rotax form for reporting such items.
They can't fix it . . . if they don't know it's happening.
Astounding.
Rotax CSIR Report
Here is the link to report these voltage regulator failures to Rotax. I sent one in a couple days ago.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/en/component/rsform/form/3-customer-service-information-report-csir
Here is the link to report these voltage regulator failures to Rotax. I sent one in a couple days ago.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/en/component/rsform/form/3-customer-service-information-report-csir
I submitted, under warrantee (140 hours, less than 18 months) my fried VR to Aircraft Spruce/CPS/Rotax in July for a replacement refund. I have ~ 20 "reminder" emails into CPS. Still have not heard back from Rotax.
I think they know this is an issue. Frustrating...I had hoped for better from Rotax.
I think they know this is an issue. Frustrating...I had hoped for better from Rotax.
cactusman
Well Known Member
I like my john deere - I do keep a spare in the plane, but haven't had a problem. I don't have the hours that others have on it, and it does charge well, almost too well - i see the occasional warning when it hits the upper limit on voltage really when its been sitting for 30 days without flying....but conversely I don't see the discharging it seemed I was always seeing with the ducati VR....especially with the lights all on...my plane is loaded up too with dual touch, etc, a/p panels, ads...a lot of electrical load when everything is working.
Those trickle chargers, even the ones that supposedly condition the battery, snowflake mode, etc, they are just wrecking your battery imho, it needs to be charged properly when flying.
Mine is still on the shelf with the original holes and some experimental work similar to how others mounted it - i kept the blast tube, and used some washers with heat sink compound on the washers attached to the holes and bolts, but also a small space under the VR to allow some air circulation. I really think that our firewall and shelf get so hot with that small space, that is what is frying those ducatis.
Those trickle chargers, even the ones that supposedly condition the battery, snowflake mode, etc, they are just wrecking your battery imho, it needs to be charged properly when flying.
Mine is still on the shelf with the original holes and some experimental work similar to how others mounted it - i kept the blast tube, and used some washers with heat sink compound on the washers attached to the holes and bolts, but also a small space under the VR to allow some air circulation. I really think that our firewall and shelf get so hot with that small space, that is what is frying those ducatis.
WingedFrog
Well Known Member
If you get there you may want to try this solution:
http://vieilleburette.blogspot.com/2015/03/ducatti-voltage-regulator-relocation.html
I have about 100 hours on it. The temp strips indicate that the regulator temperature never exceeded 70 deg. C. As a reminder, analysis of the failed regulators shows that most failures are caused by solder degradation due to high temperature combined with vibrations.
Driftdown
Well Known Member
Thank you very much, Sir.
And how about a spare inner tube when away? What other spares to carry on board
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
I also carry a small assortment of AN nuts and bolts as well as a few feet of lock wire.
DHeal
Well Known Member
I have had three pairs of floats fail the SB test over my 420+ operating hours (the pairs weighed more than the SB spec). My first clue as to their sinking condition was a very slight odor of fuel while in flight (likely the result of a bit of carb bowl overflow thru the carb vents) - I noted no unusual engine performance. So as not to be stranded somewhere with a similar condition, I carry a spare pair of floats in my RV-12 (they're small and light 
).
).I have had three pairs of floats fail the SB test over my 420+ operating hours (the pairs weighed more than the SB spec). My first clue as to their sinking condition was a very slight odor of fuel while in flight (likely the result of a bit of carb bowl overflow thru the carb vents) - I noted no unusual engine performance. So as not to be stranded somewhere with a similar condition, I carry a spare pair of floats in my RV-12 (they're small and light
Thanks DHeal: how about a dead/broke battery situation? Carry one of those plug in battery energizers? Like you you use on a car?
DHeal
Well Known Member
I've thought about carrying one of those little lithium 12-volt battery packs, but I don't have any real world knowledge as to whether or not they would be useful starting up a 912.
Instead, I carry in my emergency repair kit an 18-inch long piece of battery cable with a battery terminal-sized ring connector swaged on one end and and inch of bare wire strands exposed on the other end. If faced with a dead battery while on a trip, my plan is to attach this cable to my positive battery terminal, extend the bare end out through the open oil access door, hook-up a jumper battery and start the engine. Once started, I will run the engine until it is warmed-up, shut the engine down and, hopefully, the aircraft battery will have a sufficient charge to restart the engine on its own. Alternatively, I might keep the engine running, disconnect the jumper battery, insulate the bare end of the installed cable with a heavy-duty "acorn" and secure the cable inside the engine compartment -- with great caution I might add! Anyways, that's my "plan".
Instead, I carry in my emergency repair kit an 18-inch long piece of battery cable with a battery terminal-sized ring connector swaged on one end and and inch of bare wire strands exposed on the other end. If faced with a dead battery while on a trip, my plan is to attach this cable to my positive battery terminal, extend the bare end out through the open oil access door, hook-up a jumper battery and start the engine. Once started, I will run the engine until it is warmed-up, shut the engine down and, hopefully, the aircraft battery will have a sufficient charge to restart the engine on its own. Alternatively, I might keep the engine running, disconnect the jumper battery, insulate the bare end of the installed cable with a heavy-duty "acorn" and secure the cable inside the engine compartment -- with great caution I might add! Anyways, that's my "plan".
I've thought about carrying one of those little lithium 12-volt battery packs, but I don't have any real world knowledge as to whether or not they would be useful starting up a 912.
Instead, I carry in my emergency repair kit an 18-inch long piece of battery cable with a battery terminal-sized ring connector swaged on one end and and inch of bare wire strands exposed on the other end. If faced with a dead battery while on a trip, my plan is to attach this cable to my positive battery terminal, extend the bare end out through the open oil access door, hook-up a jumper battery and start the engine. Once started, I will run the engine until it is warmed-up, shut the engine down and, hopefully, the aircraft battery will have a sufficient charge to restart the engine on its own. Alternatively, I might keep the engine running, disconnect the jumper battery, insulate the bare end of the installed cable with a heavy-duty "acorn" and secure the cable inside the engine compartment -- with great caution I might add! Anyways, that's my "plan".
Rog! Educational for me, where would you hook up the negative side? And What is an acorn exactly, I get that it may be some kind of cover to prevent a major shorting of all things electrical with that bare end. I guess bring some chocks and tie down if you are on your own. Have you thought about installing a parking brake?
Spares
Hello I'm putting a traveling spares kit together, Please be specific on AN sizes and what is lock wire used for or do you mean safety wire?
Hello I'm putting a traveling spares kit together, Please be specific on AN sizes and what is lock wire used for or do you mean safety wire?
RFSchaller
Well Known Member
Yep, lock wire is safety wire. I carry two of each AN3 and AN 4 bolt in lengths from -7 to -15 about 8 plain washers in each size and eight elastomer lock nuts in each size. I also carry a handful of #8 and #6 machine screws and nuts. Spare spark plugs, voltage regulator and fuel pump round out the list of spares. I also have a roll of Gorilla tape, a few cable ties and couple of hose clamps. If that doesn't cover it I probably can't fix it on the ramp anyway.
Hi Dave, thanks for the spares tips. Please specify for me the specific electric connector and AN fittings you referred to. I'd like to prep the spare fuel pump as you suggest. Aircraft Spruce sells an optional fuel pump filter for the faucet pump which appears to screw directly into the pump. What is your opinion about using that option?
Thank you
Doug in IL
DHeal
Well Known Member
I suggest that you refer to Van's RV-12 plan set for installation details and specified parts. Be sure to order the Facet "RV-12" pump from Van's -- it is a special Facet pump configured for the RV-12.
As for the extra fuel filter you mentioned; that is not shown on the RV-12 plans and, as far as I know, is not recommended by Van's. My 450-hour RV-12 ELSA has the factory-specified fuel system consisting of a coarse finger strainer inside the fuel tank and a finer screen inside the firewall-mounted gascolator (there is also a fine screen located within the mechanical fuel pump, but this screen is not user-serviceable). With some 450-hours of operating my RV-12 on primarily premium auto fuel (with 10% ethanol - yuck!), I have had no contamination issues. YMMV.
Assuming you have an ELSA or EAB (and not a SLSA), you can add another fuel filter, but you do so at your own risk. I have not found such a filter to be necessary.
As for the extra fuel filter you mentioned; that is not shown on the RV-12 plans and, as far as I know, is not recommended by Van's. My 450-hour RV-12 ELSA has the factory-specified fuel system consisting of a coarse finger strainer inside the fuel tank and a finer screen inside the firewall-mounted gascolator (there is also a fine screen located within the mechanical fuel pump, but this screen is not user-serviceable). With some 450-hours of operating my RV-12 on primarily premium auto fuel (with 10% ethanol - yuck!), I have had no contamination issues. YMMV.
Assuming you have an ELSA or EAB (and not a SLSA), you can add another fuel filter, but you do so at your own risk. I have not found such a filter to be necessary.
