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Fiberglass questions

LyleM

Active Member
I?m installing the fiberglass empennage tips on my -8. What is the best way to fill the seam between the fiberglass tip and the metal surface? A layer of fiberglass, or just some resin and micro balloons?
The plans call for several layers of fiberglass over the windshield / roll bar that overlaps the canopy and skirt. Does this overlap cover the bottom edge of the skirt like a pocket, or is it open on the bottom? Thanks
 
I just finished my empennage tips on my rv7a. I attached all the tips with pop rivits except for the elevators. Then I laid a layer of glass over the seams and then used light weight body filler. On the elevators I epoxied the fiberglass tips on then laid glass and smoothed with bondo. Turned out pretty darn good
 
This seems to be an effective and low effort technique compared to laying glass over the intersection and then having to blend it back in:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1366796&postcount=106

I bonded my tips with cabosil epoxy mix and then put a layer of 0.003 fiberglass 2" tape on the seem. One coat of micro on that and then Rage Gold bodyfiller to finish it off. It went quicker than it sounds. lol However, it does still take some time. I also coated the area with Kirker Enduro epoxy primer.

The link to some pics of mine is below. Also has some description.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=149050&page=38
 
I think most people extend the glass strip on the roll bar down far enough to create a pocket for the front edge of the canopy skirt to tuck into. Mine is open along the bottom edge. It is a difficult area to do in a way that is both durable and pretty. I thought I had a pretty good bond and thickness where the glass band blends onto the fuselage skin on the forward edge, but after a year or so, it cracked on both sides. It is stiff enough that even though there is a hairline crack there, it is still doing its job perfectly well.
 
I bonded my tips with cabosil epoxy mix and then put a layer of 0.003 fiberglass 2" tape on the seem. One coat of micro on that and then Rage Gold bodyfiller to finish it off.

Couldn't make up your mind?

Seriously, control surface balance is important. Adding mass aft of the hinge line, here a lot of glass and bondo, is simply a bad idea. In the case of an elevator, it requires more counterweight after paint. In the case of an RV rudder, the control surface CG shift is permanent, and appears to reduce flutter margin.

Ok, set structural issues aside. As general good practice, you should not mix materials unless really necessary. I have seen unpainted RV's with five or six different fillers. In addition to various adhesion and chemical issues, different sanding densities result in waviness after paint. Polyester body filler over epoxy/micro makes no sense anyway...a filler over a filler.
 
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nothing at all

my Project is in the paintshop right now.
i dicussed this question with a proffessional aircraft painter (10+ years experience).
he said: leave it as it is!
why?
-cracks will most likely develop due to different expansion between two different materials (aluminum + fiberglass/filler/bondo....)
-weight
-balance of the control surface (you could re-balance --> even more weight)

i would like to add:
-easier to repair/replace if you ever have to (for upcoming or current SB?s??)
 
Couldn't make up your mind?

Seriously, control surface balance is important. Adding mass aft of the hinge line, here a lot of glass and bondo, is simply a bad idea. In the case of an elevator, it requires more counterweight after paint. In the case of an RV rudder, the control surface CG shift is permanent, and appears to reduce flutter margin.

Ok, set structural issues aside. As general good practice, you should not mix materials unless really necessary. I have seen unpainted RV's with five or six different fillers. In addition to various adhesion and chemical issues, different sanding densities result in waviness after paint. Polyester body filler over epoxy/micro makes no sense anyway...a filler over a filler.

I had a feeling you might post something like this. You are not getting my full story and maybe didn't go look at the pics either before "publicly roasting":) my assumed lack of flutter knowledge.

Let me first start by saying your knowledge of fiberglass far supersedes mine, however the method I used is working on many flying RVs out there. As some say, more than one way to skin a cat.

First, I am very aware of flutter and did everything I could to add as little weight as possible. I did not heap a big ole blob of stuff on my parts and call it good. In fact I sanded the gelcoat off quite aggressively down to fiberglass first so that the filler was more of a replacement than an addition.

The cabosil mix only fills the very slight gap between tip and metal. (very little was used, maybe 3-4ml on ALL surfaces) A method I am pretty sure I learned from your endorsement elsewhere on the forums.

The fiberglass I used was ungodly thin and was even sanded afterwards.

The micro was then added as the primary filler. However, there were still a few areas I wanted a better shape or needed to fill ever so slightly. Hence the Rage Gold. Fiberglass is a suitable substrate for Rage Gold and it sands easier than micro and more important to me at the time it is ready for sanding in 30 min.

If you look at the pic below you will see how little and how thin the filler really is, especially aft of the hinge line. (upclose you could see the seam almost the full length under the coat. the thick being where I sanded the gelcoat) This is also the case for the rudder.

20190617_180404 by Jereme Carne, on Flickr

In the next pic you can see the finished product which in my mind blends quite well and looks professional. Both elevators are also still well overbalanced which indicated I didn't change their balance much which I'm sure also translates to the rudder. I also elected to just use micro on the HS tips. In the end this is what I would do in the future with all surfaces as I know many guys that still don't have any cracks.

20190625_164306 by Jereme Carne, on Flickr

Now I'm definitely not trying to change the fiberglass masters mind. I do however feel that I needed to point out what I did as well as the fact that many have done it this way too and don't seem to be falling out of the sky. Is it more work than necessary; yes. Does it work; based on the data I have seen it does. In addition, the only case I know of that resulted in tragedy was one example with excess filler on the rudder on the tune of about 1/4" + in places. (the report estimated multiple POUNDS of filler on the rudder if I remember right) He was also WELL above Vne.

All that being said, flutter is no joke and everyone should do what is necessary to not add excessive filler aft of the hing line. I do not feel like I did.
 
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