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N-Number Lookup Privacy

What do you think about the n-number lookup system?

  • I think the information currently publicly available is fine

    Votes: 58 37.2%

  • I'd rather my information were private

    Votes: 72 46.2%

  • I'm indifferent

    Votes: 26 16.7%
  • Total voters
    156
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BMC_Dave

Well Known Member
Try as I might I can't think of a good reason anyone should be able to look up my N-number and get my name and address. Thinking about car license plates this information isn't as easily available to the public, or you have to have some specific credentials to access it, it's not just a web page anyone has access to.

I think this should be changed to remove such identifying information from public access. Thoughts?
 
it is cool to be able to look up where a plane is based or exactly what kind of plane it is if I see something out that I don't recognize. If the thought is to hide it so companies can't charge you a landing fee off your n number and mail you the bill, I suspect these would be the kinds of people with the credentials to see your info anyhow
 
Yeah if there's a need then I could see getting access like you mention. I just think it's open to abuse now. We've already heard of folks being contacted about selling their planes unsolicited, for one example.
 
business use

Many states allow an exemption from sales tax on parts for service done in state on aircraft registered out of state. Using the FAA N number registration site to verify the registration state is helpful to business owners.
 
One Reason.........

BMC_Dave said:
Try as I might I can't think of a good reason anyone should be able to look up my N-number and get my name and address. Thoughts?
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Well for one; I use this function every day. I need that information to perform Airworthiness Inspections. Now, while I realize that DARs are the exception, you asked for a good reason.
 
I have used the FAA database many times to track down where airplanes currently are and get contact info. This might be to track down an owner and get info or material to them that belongs with the airplane. It might be to connect the current owner to a previous owner or previous owner's family or something similar. It might be to get info from the current owner about a particular modification or equipment installation that exists on teh plane. There are all kinds of reasons. It does come in handy to be able to make connections with owners.
 
I see comments to its convenience. Though I wonder if this convenience is worth the loss of privacy for everyone, presuming your customers would volunteer this information?
 
I've said this before...it'll take somebody doing something stupid and dangerous to get them to change it. Somebody's ex or a lunatic harasser will track somebody down (or their family) using FAA database info, and then it'll change.

That's what it took for auto license plate info to stop being given out to every Tom, Dick and celebrity-obsessed Harry...after the young actress was killed by somebody who got her address from DMV.
 
BMC_Dave said:
I see comments to its convenience. Though I wonder if this convenience is worth the loss of privacy for everyone, presuming your customers would volunteer this information?
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Unfortunately this is not practical. This information must be EXACTLY like it is on the registration. VERY often the applicant will offer the information as He/She knows it instead of exactly how it is!
As the old saying goes: "It ain't what you don't know. It's what you know that ain't so!"
 
Flying is a public activity. You're flying over people and in some cases, disturbing an otherwise quiet day for those on the ground. I don't see the issue with the registration being public. I use the database daily. If you don't want your home address listed, then use a PO box. If you don't want your name listed, then put it in an LLC. Now it's slightly harder to know who owns it...Another public database to lookup.

As for DMV databases - there are private ones with near real time locations using privately operated license plate scanners. Having a government database isn't needed to track anyone via license plate.

I should add, I do believe in protecting privacy, but making the database protected won't offer any real privacy protections. It might make you sleep better at night, but nothing more.
 
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Privacy

Wow, if this is a privacy issue for you, in my County and probably all other Counties, you can look up personal information on your home and property on the GIS system! Info about how much it is worth and how much you pay in property taxes!
 
Today there is no privacy! You can be track by your cell phone, big data collects information on what you watch on tv and surf on the internet. Your banking, credit card purchases, financial records, etc. are all available to anyone who willing to pay for the information.

The fact that someone can look me up by N number registration is probably the least intrusive activity. I for one believe that using FAA public information on aircraft ownership serves at least some public good and is far less intrusive than the other data that is collected about me by many public companies and individuals.

As I said, privacy is both an illusion and not possible in today?s technology world. Politicians are discovering what they did 10 to 30+ years is now ?public.? Criminals are being tracked down by a relative?s Ancestory.com DNA test. Police can?t arrest someone without it being recorded. Get use to it and don?t be stupid in what you say or do. Someone will discover it!
 
N456TS said:
Flying is a public activity. You're flying over people and in some cases, disturbing an otherwise quiet day for those on the ground.
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So is driving, but DMV doesn't allow anyone to go on-line and look up the owner of a vehicle, get their address, etc. Lots of things are done in public, but that doesn't mean I want the government to make my personal information freely available.

I don't see the issue with the registration being public. I use the database daily. If you don't want your home address listed, then use a PO box.
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IIRC, you can't use a PO Box (I don't remember if that's for pilot certificates, aircraft registration, or both).

If you don't want your name listed, then put it in an LLC. Now it's slightly harder to know who owns it...Another public database to lookup.

As for DMV databases - there are private ones with near real time locations using privately operated license plate scanners. Having a government database isn't needed to track anyone via license plate.

I should add, I do believe in protecting privacy, but making the database protected won't offer any real privacy protections. It might make you sleep better at night, but nothing more.
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of *tracking* a vehicle by plate number (or N-number). It's a question of *finding* the person who owns it and tracking them *down*. And as I said, the FAA's public release of pilot or owner data isn't going to change (as all the DMVs did years ago) unless and until somebody famous or some politician (or their family) gets hurt or killed by someone who got their information from the FAA's database.
 
There are so many ways people can find my address already, that taking this one away wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. I've got more important things to worry about than whether an N number search will lead to my address. Google will do that already, so what's the big deal?
 
jnorris said:
There are so many ways people can find my address already, that taking this one away wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. I've got more important things to worry about than whether an N number search will lead to my address. Google will do that already, so what's the big deal?
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Agreed, Doesn't take a lot of time to find anyone's address or other info on the net.
 
It doesn't, but there should be at least some barrier, not just an open database for all. I see there are some legitimate uses and those people should still have access, but it need not be so easy.
 
Drifteral said:
Agreed, Doesn't take a lot of time to find anyone's address or other info on the net.
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For a nominal fee, there are numerous on-line companies that will give you an address and cell phone number for anyone. For free, a GIS map will show you my house and give you my name and tell you when I bought the property. Privacy is gone.
 
bkervaski said:
So is, apparently, the desire for privacy.
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And *that* is the problem.

BTW, the poll should have had an option for "It's fine if you don't value your personal info, but I'd like the option to be to opt *in* before any data is released."

If you don't know what they're releasing, how do you even know to opt out?
 
My Solution

Here's my solution to this question...

Go on the FAA's site and look up N256H and then see how easy it is to find me just from my tail number.
 
Your correct!

BMC_Dave said:
Try as I might I can't think of a good reason anyone should be able to look up my N-number and get my name and address. Thinking about car license plates this information isn't as easily available to the public, or you have to have some specific credentials to access it, it's not just a web page anyone has access to.

I think this should be changed to remove such identifying information from public access. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

There is no good reason. Its one more piece for the identity thefts to complete there puzzle on YOU! It should be changed.
 
First, I like to look up information based on N-number. It's fun to see where a plane is from, year/model, and builder in the case of experimentals.

My view is that owning/flying an aircraft is a privilege, not a right, and part of the privilege is giving up some small amount of privacy. No one says you have to use your own name (use a corporation if desired) or your home address. As others have said, it's easy to find someone's address if you want - check out every municipality's property tax records as one example.
 
mturnerb said:
First, I like to look up information based on N-number. It's fun to see where a plane is from, year/model, and builder in the case of experimentals.
My view is that owning/flying an aircraft is a privilege, not a right, and part of the privilege is giving up some small amount of privacy. No one says you have to use your own name (use a corporation if desired) or your home address. As others have said, it's easy to find someone's address if you want - check out every municipality's property tax records as one example.
Click to expand...

I disagree, be it a privilege or a right, it does not entitle the "general public" to my personal information.

As fun as it is, my personal information should not be open to satisfy an "aviation enthusiast's" hobby.
 
mturnerb said:
First, I like to look up information based on N-number. It's fun to see where a plane is from, year/model, and builder in the case of experimentals.

My view is that owning/flying an aircraft is a privilege, not a right, and part of the privilege is giving up some small amount of privacy. No one says you have to use your own name (use a corporation if desired) or your home address. As others have said, it's easy to find someone's address if you want - check out every municipality's property tax records as one example.
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So, what part of your life *is* a right? When does an activity transition to being a privilege? Is walking across the street a right, or a privilege? If there's a crosswalk painted, and a traffic light, does walking now become a privilege, because there are regulations attached to the activity?
 
rv7charlie said:
So, what part of your life *is* a right? When does an activity transition to being a privilege? Is walking across the street a right, or a privilege? If there's a crosswalk painted, and a traffic light, does walking now become a privilege, because there are regulations attached to the activity?
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AFAIK, the only guaranteed rights in this country are defined in the constitution and further by statutes based on the constitution and conforming to the constitution (both US and state). The crosswalk and traffic lights are there as a result of statutes that define and also restrict your related “rights”. The privilege of walking in public is based on conformity with the rules and can typically be restricted if you elect to break the rules. In the case of driving and flying (and many others) the privilege can be removed by violating the rules defined by statutes and regulatory declaration (FARs for example).

I was told as a kid that driving is a privilege not a right, the real point being that by becoming a licensed driver I knowingly and willingly subjected myself to the rules of driving.

My point is that we are aware of the way the system works when we elect to take part in it. And don’t forget that the system gives you the option of obscuring your identity as an aircraft owner by using a corporation and / or business address. I’m a little surprised that folks get upset over a “problem” that has an easy and obvious solution. It’s like the old days of phone books. Not many were bothered by having a listed phone number and address but those who did either gave up their phone or went unlisted.
 
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kevinsrv7.com said:
I disagree, be it a privilege or a right, it does not entitle the "general public" to my personal information.

As fun as it is, my personal information should not be open to satisfy an "aviation enthusiast's" hobby.
Click to expand...

I guess I am confused. I take part in an avocation that is fueled by intense interest in mine and others’ related activities. Where would Oshkosh, Sun N Fun, and VAF be without this? I’ve met very interesting people on this forum and others by looking up N numbers from airplanes spotted on the ramp. Given the enjoyment many of us get by being part of this community I would hate to think that my interest is seen as an intrusion. Are you saying that you don't want other aviators to know about you/your aircraft, or people outside the aviation community?

And I would point out that nothing is new here: we all are aware prospectively of the rules of the game. My name will always be listed as the manufacturer of my aircraft, but otherwise I have the option to use a corporate name to hide my personal information. I knew going in that my name will always be attached to my airplane, and I accepted that as an attribute of the system’s rules. It was my choice.
 
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Personally it's not that I mistrust anyone here on the forum or the GA community or even the FAA .. it's that history has proven time and time again that a central database (in any form, technological or other) can be weaponized by governments and crazy people.
 
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bkervaski said:
Personally it's not that I mistrust anyone here on the forum or the GA community or even the FAA .. it's that history has proven time and time again that a central database (in any form, technological or other) can be weaponized by governments and crazy people.
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This gets back to the Constitution. It starts off by defining basic human rights and codifies those in the Bill of Rights. The Declaration of Independence clearly justifies resistance against tyranny: "When in the course of human events...."

Realistically though, how could the FAA possibly administer the aviation system and give us the best and safest flying environment without data on all parts of the system? I just don't see how we can divorce the participants and their information from effective operations. True in any area of life I can think of, not just aviation.
 
Well that didn't take long...

....when it finally gets to talk of the Constitution and Governments it's time to close it per the posting rules.

Rule #3: http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm if you'd like to give it a read.

Thread closed.

Back to talk of building and flying RVs if you would please.....
 
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