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$3500 N number

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N numbers only mean something to the builder, or owner of any airplane (maybe falsely). No one else cares. I would be happy with a randomly selected N number - like buying a lottery ticket with auto pick. Who cares, really?? The only reason I can think of for selecting a personalized N number is how it rolls off the tongue. I don?t prefer to end my call sign in ?Sierra Echo, or Zulu Hotel? - too many syllables for me, but others may like those ones. BUT - I could get used to any number. The N number means NOTHING. We could shut the N number pirates down by not caring what our useless N number is. If you built your airplane, your name is on the data plate. Isn?t that enough?

We customize panels, interiors, colors, exterior schemes, configurations (trigear vs conventional), canopy selections, engines, props, electrical systems.

Why wouldn't we prefer custom N-numbers.

PS - anyone want N42KB? I've got it reserved, but won't need it.
 
Why??? Because it?s apparently difficult to get what you want and it can get very expensive! It?s like a personalized license plate on your car. The only people that care about that are the cops that are pulling you over. I wouldn?t pay any more than the required $10 for an N number. I seriously doubt that anybody looking at your airplane and noticing all the wonderful things you did in building it (seriously) will take a glance at your N number. I think $10 is too much!! Somebody is gouging us. Call them entrepreneurs if you want, but I think of them the same way I think about the countless scammers that call my cell phone so many times every day. Maybe they should get a job. Your N number is the most meaningless thing on your airplane.
 
I picked my number by how quick easy it was to say on the radio. I didn't want 2 letters.

If I were King, my policy would be just like it is for a car license plate. For home builds, you could buy it for one year and it you have net certified the plane after a year, you lose it. I would have lost my number since I have had it for a couple years, but since I am King, I could exempt myself.
 
Sorry to revive this old thread. I too view certain companies as "scalpers". I wanted a short N number, but out of principle, was not going to pay the ransom. I believe it is difficult for the FAA to change their rules (i think some things are handed down by congress in the FAA reauthorization bill).. but I have noticed that last year they enhanced their website in order to make automated purchases more of a hassle.

I digress. So long story short, being a computer programmer by schooling, i simply wrote my own automated program to reserve and pay for numbers at the stroke of midnight (Central Time). If anyone wants me to [try to] reserve a number for them (for your own plane, not for resale!), PM me and we'll figure something out. I don't want to give out my program because I believe it to be faster than whatever these companies are using.

I have 1179, 1913, 2111, and 713 reserved. I'll most likely use 713 later this year and not renew the others. (don't forget that 1's have special dimensions that can lead to physically shorter painted numbers on your plane!)
 
I picked my number by how quick easy it was to say on the radio. I didn't want 2 letters.

If I were King, my policy would be just like it is for a car license plate. For home builds, you could buy it for one year and it you have not certified the plane after a year, you lose it. I would have lost my number since I have had it for a couple years, but since I am King, I could exempt myself.

You nailed it....... Why would you want to say "nin er hoo tell pa pa" when you could just say...626.

I gave up my custom number because I hated scrolling back and forth to enter letters at the pump.
 
Apparently trying to make a change about N-numbers is considered political and not appropriate and has been removed, yet we can complain for or against them here.

So keep an eye out on social networks for a link to do something about it.

:)
 
I have to give credit for the guy who thought this scheme up, but it is not in the interests of fair play.

It was simply copying the practice started with web domain names 15-20 years ago. Limited supply and strong, vanity-based demand creates a profit opportunity. I agree it is a shame but the FAA likely doesn't care and has other things to deal with.
 
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Apparently trying to make a change about N-numbers is considered political and not appropriate and has been removed, yet we can complain for or against them here.
Commenting on site policy is also considered not appropriate so expect your post (and this one) to be removed as well...

I was looking for a registration that was easy to say on the radio, but when my initials came up as available, I went with that instead. When shortened to the last two letters it's pretty easy to say on the radio, and at least at my airport there isn't anyone with a similar registration to confuse anyone.
 
N numbers

I?ve had good success getting the N numbers I wanted. I was very patient and sometimes waited years to get one. I flew a twin Beech that was N711, I knew I could never get it. It has been in the same family for 70+ years. I did finally get N6711 just after an airplane was deregistered. It was on a Lockheed. I do like the number on my RV6A.
 
Apparently trying to make a change about N-numbers is considered political and not appropriate and has been removed, yet we can complain for or against them here.

So keep an eye out on social networks for a link to do something about it.

:)

Stay on it HAL. Get the FB page going and I will spread it like the plague to every pilot group I can find! I know some people that have actually meet with the FAA in Oklahoma in regards to Sean. Keep up the flight and the pressure and I know we can get this changed. Good work sir!
 
Stay on it HAL. Get the FB page going and I will spread it like the plague to every pilot group I can find! I know some people that have actually meet with the FAA in Oklahoma in regards to Sean. Keep up the flight and the pressure and I know we can get this changed. Good work sir!

That's really what it would take...all the alphabet groups to push for it.

On a side note, I'd like to understand why this topic falls afoul of the politics discussion ban. Seems like it's more about whether or not to push for *regulatory* changes to aviation, much like the discussions about driver's license medicals and then BasicMed, when those were being pushed.

Not arguing the rules or moderation, just want to know why, as this doesn't "feel" political to me.
 
It looks political because the changes discussed here are not going to improve our ability to register and fly an airplane - we can do that today and we can do that tomorrow. What we have here is a perceived "injustice", and someone thinks we need to create law to solve that injustice. The basic premise of the topic- restricting the freedom of some (creating new law) so that others can get what they want - is inherently social/political.

I don't like the practice either, but fact remains the "scalpers" are not restricting our ability to register our airplanes, so this issue is not a "real" problem. The act of changing laws certainly does consume resources however - and that's a "real" fact. Let's be mindful of what we wish for.
 
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Nobody can go online and run, or check, owner information of automobile license plates. The rules and laws that cover that are extensive and requires law enforcement to be trained to do that with strict consequences if those rules are violated. And those LEIN inquires are monitored and randomly audited. Why the FAA allows access to N number inquiries by anyone with a computer is beyond me. Put a stop to that, which they should for privacy, and problem solved.
 
So this dude is pumping out $10 to save each N number? Or is it $5.

It is enterprising for sure. I don?t completely agree with it... but I?m not necessarily completely opposed to it either.

The FAA has set their rules. They guy is playing by the rules. The rules are the problem.

X
 
There are probably several N numbers that would meet my criteria. I still don't like this practice though but I agree it's the rules that need to change.
 
So this dude is pumping out $10 to save each N number? Or is it $5.

It is enterprising for sure. I don?t completely agree with it... but I?m not necessarily completely opposed to it either.

The FAA has set their rules. They guy is playing by the rules. The rules are the problem.

X


And that's what I am trying to change, the Rules.

So why is change a political thing? We have a front page sticky on this web site advocating that VANS AIRCRAFT design a back country aircraft. Looks like a petition to me.

I want to change the rules about N-Numbers. I'm not advocating any political party. I'm creating a petition.

The Government should stay out of creating monopolies except for the greater good like utilities. N-Numbers are not a utility, but the current rules have created a de facto monopoly. There is precedent in the FCC assignment system for exactly the thing we are talking about, creating a fair assignment system.

My 2C
 
I don?t mind it that much but your petition makes a valid argument regarding the FCC so I signed your petition.
 
Yet still no explanation as to how its a problem for anybody? Nothing stopping folks from getting N numbers.
 
HAL Pilot, I also signed your petition. You may want to display the link a little more prominently in your post, as it is buried in your sig file with no clear label.

HAL Pilot's link:

"change dot org link http://chng.it/KBPtXZYD "
 
Currently the FAA’s N-number reservation system has created a near monopoly on “custom” or desirable Aircraft registration N-numbers. This has lead to a price increase for “buying” an N-number of thousands of dollars. Organizations and individuals with deep pockets don't mind but general aviation pilots are being squeezed out by an unfair system unintentionally created by current FAA rules.

Like I said, there is nothing preventing anyone from getting an N number.

I don’t see any problem worth creating more unnecessary laws.

What these guys are doing is no different than internet domain names, vanity phone numbers, or real estate.

There’s some land down the street that I would love to build a house on and since the owner isn’t using it I guess we should petition the government to take it away while we’re at it.
 
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There’s some land down the street that I would love to build a house on and since the owner isn’t using it I guess we should petition the government to take it away while we’re at it.

Not really a good analogy. In the case you describe it would be a government taking of private property. With n#’s we’re talking about the opposite, a private party taking of a public resource... more akin to a private party squatting on public land and demanding he/she be paid by someone else for its use.
 
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Not really a good analogy. In the case you describe it would be a government taking of private property. With n#?s we?re talking about the opposite, a private party taking of a public resource... more akin to a private party squatting on public land and demanding he/she be paid by someone else for its use.

That analogy is more appropriate to this situation.
 
Easy

Is it me or is this too complicated. Just ban the sale of n numbers. They may be transferred with plane sale. Or transfered for free.
 
In the case you describe it would be a government taking of private property

What is private property other than the government recognizing that someone owns it [by means of a "registration"]?

What about internet domain names?

What about vanity toll free numbers?

My point is .. really .. it's simply not a problem that has to be addressed. There's nothing stopping anyone from getting N numbers and laws like the one suggested just continue erode our freedoms over time making the lines gray on where to draw them and setting precedent that can be skewed by lawmakers.
 
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Is it me or is this too complicated. Just ban the sale of n numbers...

That's a slippery slope. The problem with that approach is that you need to expend scarce resources to create a new law, then you need to expend even more resources to enforce the new law when people find a perceived loophole. Let's not forget that during this policy review period, the powers that be are going to "correct" other issues and we may end up considerably worse off than we are now.

I could see the Feds saying "screw it - nobody gets to reserve an N number anymore. You will get what you are assigned and like it!". That brings equality to all of us.
 
I could see the Feds saying "screw it - nobody gets to reserve an N number anymore. You will get what you are assigned and like it!". That brings equality to all of us.

Yep, that's what I would do if I were in charge of the registration system and the petition came across my desk.

However, being on the other side of the desk I say let's leave well enough alone :eek:
 
What is private property other than the government recognizing that someone owns it [by means of a "registration"]?

What about internet domain names?

What about vanity toll free numbers?

My point is .. really .. it's simply not a problem that has to be addressed. There's nothing stopping anyone from getting N numbers and laws like the one suggested just continue erode our freedoms over time making the lines gray on where to draw them and setting precedent that can be skewed by lawmakers.

What about vanity license plates on cars? Since you can't get a plate unless you have a car, that pretty much eliminates the "hoarding" or "squatting" we see here.
 
What about vanity license plates on cars? Since you can't get a plate unless you have a car, that pretty much eliminates the "hoarding" or "squatting" we see here.

Good point .. but you still have to pay for vanity plates, at least in the states I've lived in.
 
The issuing authority should just put expiring numbers on eBay for a week in a no-reserve auction. Let the government capture the extra value instead of the scalpers.
 
I could see the Feds saying "screw it - nobody gets to reserve an N number anymore. You will get what you are assigned and like it!". That brings equality to all of us.
This change to the rules is more probable than any other "convoluted" change. Otherwise someone will find a way to get around whatever the new rule becomes.

Be careful of what you ask for, you might just get it.

:cool:
 
Good point .. but you still have to pay for vanity plates, at least in the states I've lived in.

Yep. I think it's $25 here.

In any case, there's no third-party market for them where one guy can buy up a boatload of government-mandated data and then charge whatever he wants.

And let's not go down the "you don't HAVE to own a plane" argument...you don't HAVE to own a car, either.
 
Yep. I think it's $25 here.

In any case, there's no third-party market for them where one guy can buy up a boatload of government-mandated data and then charge whatever he wants.

And let's not go down the "you don't HAVE to own a plane" argument...you don't HAVE to own a car, either.

The government also doesn't mandate that you have to buy a specific N-number, so let's not set up that straw man, either...
 
Just like vanity automotive plates, right?

Auto vs Aircraft registration aren't 100% analogous in every aspect, but in some senses, yes. If someone else has that plate, it's theirs. I can't just tell Mr. Government to take it away from them and give it to me simply because I want it. They're doing nothing wrong by simply having it. It doesn't harm me in any way. Nor does it affect my ability to register my aircraft.
 
Auto vs Aircraft registration aren't 100% analogous in every aspect, but in some senses, yes. If someone else has that plate, it's theirs. I can't just tell Mr. Government to take it away from them and give it to me simply because I want it. They're doing nothing wrong by simply having it. It doesn't harm me in any way. Nor does it affect my ability to register my aircraft.



Ahh but that person cannot save up multiple unused license plates and sell them on a secondary market, AND they can not sell their custom license plate. Only the DMV can.

Were not talking about taking away N-numbers that are being used and giving them to someone else who wants them. This is strictly someone who is buying up all the "desirable" ones so they can sell them. This has created an inequity in the "system" that was not meant to be created. The same thing happened in the FCC call sign case and it was fixed because the users asked that it be fixed.

If there is enough demand from the users then congress will tell the FAA to change the rules. I have heard that folks who have talked with the FAA about this have been told that they, the FAA, do not like the current system either but they are stuck with the rules they have been given.

There are 220,000 GA aircraft registered in the US if we can get decent percentage of owners who sign the petition, it would definitely be a number that our representatives will heed.


Picking up momentum, were up to 117 after 3 days.

Day 1- 10 Day 2- 5 Day 3- 102


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Auto vs Aircraft registration aren't 100% analogous in every aspect, but in some senses, yes. If someone else has that plate, it's theirs. I can't just tell Mr. Government to take it away from them and give it to me simply because I want it. They're doing nothing wrong by simply having it. It doesn't harm me in any way. Nor does it affect my ability to register my aircraft.

We're not talking about *after* it's affixed to a car or plane...then they *would* be analagous, because I can ask someone with a car with license plate N12345 if they'd take $X to turn it in so I can have it (I assume DMV has a way to transfer a plate from one car to another, I dunno), same as I can do with registration N12345 assigned to an aircraft.

The disparity happens here *before* then...while the government (state for autos, federal for aircraft) retains control over the "license plate numbers", including "vanity" plates. Automotive, you can't get a vanity plate unless you have a car to put it on, so there's no real ooportunity for someone to turn a government (taxpayer-funded) resource into something akin to a monopoly. Aircraft, you can get as many vanity plates as you want, without a single aircraft to attach them to, thereby allowing someone to theoretically acquire as many "plates", vanity or non-, as they wish and charge any price they wish.

You can argue that it's legal, therefore it's okay. I tend to think that when the FAA created the system whereby one could request specific N-numbers, they intended it for use just as most of us here are using it...to get an N-number that is meaningful for your private plane, or business aircraft. I doubt they intended it to be monopolized by a guy who does nothing more than turn around and charge ridiculously high fees while running some sort of sperm bank.

Cybersquatting, patent trolls, this guy...all in the same category, as far as I'm concerned. Seems a simple change to the regulations would end this bit of abuse.
 
Auto vs Aircraft registration aren't 100% analogous in every aspect, but in some senses, yes. If someone else has that plate, it's theirs. I can't just tell Mr. Government to take it away from them and give it to me simply because I want it. They're doing nothing wrong by simply having it. It doesn't harm me in any way. Nor does it affect my ability to register my aircraft.

With auto license plates (at least some of them) this is the case. Very low digit plates are reserved for the governors buddy in most states or other political kiss a$$3$ many make huge campaign contributions to get these low digit plates. These plates are also reserved for just this purpose.
 
Is it me or is this too complicated. Just ban the sale of n numbers. They may be transferred with plane sale. Or transfered for free.

How would you be able to police the fact that person A wasn't charging person B to transfer the number for free?

Come on guys this is capitalism. There's good and there's bad but over all it's still better than everything else.
I could see capping the amount of n numbers anyone can accumulate without applying them to an airplane that is flying. But that's about it for me.

I'm sure the rule is the way it is so that so,e guy can reserved a block of n numbers for a fleet he wants to start up but someone figured out they could make a buck on it. Thing is if no one bought them there wouldn't be a market but there is, so someone is benefiting from this service.

I think you need to file it under sucks to not be rich, unless your rich. Then it's filed under it's good to be the king.😁
 
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