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Dimpling/Riveting question

T

tal454

Member
Hello,

I've searched the forums for this but couldn't find anything. Maybe my searching skills aren't too good. New guy questions here, but this is how we all learn right?

Is there any general rule of thumb for when to use a squeezer to dimple vs when to use a c-frame? And vice versa?

Same question applies to riveting, Any rule of thumb as to when to use the rivet gun over squeezing the rivet? I think blind rivets are pretty self explanatory.

Any advice is much appreciated.

-Tim
 
Not really Tim. It is mostly personnel preference. I like to use a squeezer when ever possible for riveting and dimpling. There are places when a squeezer will not reach. I don't think one is better than the other. As you build you will have your favorite tools and technics. It's all about enjoying the process.
 
Not a standard adopted by everyone, but my personal one is.....

-Dimple Countersinking-
If you care about the appearance (dimples on exterior skins, etc.) use a C-frame tool. Even on holes accessible by a squeezer.

If the dimples will be hidden (dimples in substructure flanges, etc.) then do what ever is most convenient/efficient; except for large dimples for screws I avoid using a hand squeezer (use a pneumatic squeezer if possible).

-Riveting-
1st choice - Use a squeezer when ever possible
2nd " - Back rivet (numerous different techniques)
3rd " - Conventional riveting with gun and bucking bar
 
Perfect Description, but . .

rvbuilder2002 said:
Not a standard adopted by everyone, but my personal one is.....

-Dimple Countersinking-
If you care about the appearance (dimples on exterior skins, etc.) use a C-frame tool. Even on holes accessible by a squeezer.

If the dimples will be hidden (dimples in substructure flanges, etc.) then do what ever is most convenient/efficient; except for large dimples for screws I avoid using a hand squeezer (use a pneumatic squeezer if possible).

-Riveting-
1st choice - Use a squeezer when ever possible
2nd " - Back rivet (numerous different techniques)
3rd " - Conventional riveting with gun and bucking bar
Click to expand...

I follow this priority list, but find that since most rivets can be reached with the squeezers, and some of the hard to reach ones need conventional bucking, that my bucking skills with offset and odd locations need improvement. So practice is required before setting a few hard to reach areas. Skins where there is room, no problem, it goes well, but rivet gun on one hand and bucking bar in the other trips me up. YMMV
 
BillL said:
I follow this priority list, but find that since most rivets can be reached with the squeezers... but rivet gun on one hand and bucking bar in the other trips me up. YMMV
Click to expand...

To me shooting and bucking solo has been a very valuable skill to develop. Do not want to start a hand vs pneumatic squeezer debate, but a pneumatic is certainly not a fire and forget tool. If I have very clear access, I certainly agree with that list. However, I am much more inclined than I was at the beginning of the build to pick up the gun and bar - certainly for those times when I'm war-gaming how to hit a rivet with a squeezer. Perhaps this would change if I was comparing to a hand squeezer. I used a friend's for a few rivets and it did appear a bit more manageable.

As far as dimpling - I only use other methods when I absolutely cannot use the c-frame.
 
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Two hands

Welcome Tim. This site, these gifted builders will save you lots of time and errors.
Looks like you got good advise already. One thing to add.
Teach yourself to do most skills with either hand, especially driving and bucking rivets.
Using a rivet gun with your non dominant hand is a valuable skill.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
-Riveting-
1st choice - Use a squeezer when ever possible
2nd " - Back rivet (numerous different techniques)
3rd " - Conventional riveting with gun and bucking bar
Click to expand...

Agree 100% with this list; dimpling: squeezer, then Cframe, then pop rivet dimpler . The key is not all squeezers are created equal. The better the multiplication factor the better the squeezer. I bought Cleavelands Main Squeeze and never looked back; but its quite pricey. You get what you pay for wrt squeezers IMHO.
 
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maniago said:
Agree 100% with this list; dimpling: squeezer, then Cframe, then pop rivet dimpler . The key is not all squeezers are created equal. The better the multiplication factor the better the squeezer. I bought Cleavelands Main Squeeze and never looked back; but its quite pricey. You get what you pay for wrt squeezers IMHO.
Click to expand...

The other factor when using a squeezer for dimpling is what yoke you are using.
The shorter the reach, usually the better the result.
The reason is that quality dimpling requires a huge amount of squeeze force. Deeper reach yokes can have more flex in them than small yokes, which mis-aligns the face of the dies which results in a lower quality dimple. This is why when ever possible, my first choice for dimpling is a C-frame tool.
 
Imbed a dimple die bucking bar in your work bench

I am on my second RV and find that I hardly use a squeezer at all any more. I find it difficult to get the shop head flush before I begin the squeeze, and I still get the shop head to flop sometimes. You will get so good at working the gun and bucking bar that it is quicker, easier and better quality at least in my experience. Also, you will want to use your rivet cutter quite a bit to get half size length rivets when plans call out for a rivet that is a bit too long.

But one tool that I use a TON, is my imbedded bucking block. I use it mostly to dimple my large skins, but also to set rivets from time to time. Take a look at these pictures and you can get the idea. I have a female die on a swivel for the gun. Dimple all my skins with this thing.

2aajchw.jpg


2crne5d.jpg


50nt4k.jpg
 
When setting a row of like size rivets, the squeezer will usually provide more consistency. That is, of course, after getting the appropriate adjustment made on the first one.

Once you have a few hundred or thousand rivets set by gun and bar, it becomes second nature and would be your favorite method, in most cases.

After you get the hang of bucking by hand, pick up a tungsten bucking bar and you will feel spoiled.
 
I've got more questions now...

On my test pieces using the rivet gun and bar my aluminum seems to be warping. What am I doing wrong here? When riveting smaller pieces of aluminum should I be doing something different?

I've got the gun set almost as low is it can for these smaller rivets but I still get warping in the sheet metal (not so much on the rivet)

Any videos of riveting or sites that give a good in depth method to riveting using a rivet gun?

-Tim
 
Riveting

Tim
There are tons of videos on EAA. Google EAA Webinars.
It's difficult to critique without a photo.
Ideally you want a pressure that sets a #3 rivet in 1-2 seconds.
On my Sioux 3x, 20 lbs is a good start.
A swivel mushroom set and tungsten bar are very useful.
You want the rivet to set with a minimal amount of beating on the part. The heavier the bar, the faster the set.

#4 rivets take more pressure. On mine, 30 psi is a starting point. Longer rivets take higher pressure.
Keep trying.
 
Thanks,

I might have to grab myself an in line pressure gauge so I can actually see what I'm setting.

And I'm definitely getting me a tungsten bucking bar once I get the hang of these steel ones. I figure if I can do it with these I can really get it done with a tungsten bar.

EDIT: I think I've got it figured out for the most part. Can someone tell me if these look good, overdriven, under driven?

KraQV9.jpg


09zJDx.jpg


yXsz0O.jpg





-Tim
 
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Guage

Tim
It really helps to have a mini regulator close to the tool. The Harbor Fright work fine. I use a three way manifold at the end of the supply hose. Then I have two mini regulators. Each has a short 4-6' pigtail with a swivel. HF sells them. One regulator stays at 90-100 psi for the squeezer, drill and air tools. The other stays at lower pressures for the rivet gun. This way I can use most tools without adjusting the regulator. I labeled them so they don't get mixed up and always check pressures before use.

Your shop heads look about right. Some are under driven or maybe not driven yet. Make or buy a set of rivet gauges. Specs are in a table in Section 5. Ideal shop heads are 1.5XDiameter but you want to avoid minimum diameter and/or minimum height. The latter should drilled and replaced. Here's a link to a set of rivet guages.
http://m.skygeek.com/aircraft-tool-supply-rg031-kit-economy-rivet-length-shop-head-gauge-set.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_content=aircraft-tool-supply-rg031-kit-economy-rivet-length-shop-head-gauge-set&utm_campaign=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQiA1NWnBRDchObfnYrbo78BEiQA-2jqBYmrajdHeDcgB-V7urnsHCnzFsJ-xu-TAWV2GBZ7g5saAtkS8P8HAQ

Now that you've driven the test rivets, drill them and repeat. Drilling rivets is a mandatory valuable skill. Ask if you don't know how to do it.

Also, try switching hands. Also a valuable skill.
 
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