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Static Port Conundrum

mfleming

Well Known Member
Patron
Installing the static ports (Dynon) was next on my list.

All was well, I had the port locations marked on both sides of the fuselage, researched wether I was going to use the Dynon ports or order the Van's rivets (Dynon) and was ready to drill the holes.

Annnnnd.... then I came across Van's Static Port Kit instructions.

The -7 plans show the static port location just ahead of bulkhead F-708. The Kit instruction show the static ports just ahead of bulkhead F-707.

Now, if push comes to shove...I'll install the ports where the -7 plans indicate. BUT, The kit instruction have their appeal due to the ports and tubing being one bulkhead further forward and I like that...less tubing, easier access...

I know this topic has been discussed almost as much as primer but I haven't seen any discussions on the merits of being at one bulkhead or the other.

Plans location with the kit location added.

port.jpg


The Static Kit instructions.

DOC-STATIC-AIR-KIT.jpg


What do you think??
 
I read it differently... the static kit instructions say that the picture shown is for a RV-6 and to use Drawing 28 from the -7 plans for a static location.

Go with the -7 plans. :)
 
I read it differently... the static kit instructions say that the picture shown is for a RV-6 and to use Drawing 28 from the -7 plans for a static location.

Go with the -7 plans. :)

How the heck did I miss that line :confused:

OK ... thoroughly embarrassed :(

Everyone can move on....nothing to see here ...
 
Just before you continue......

The rivet needs good support before you knock out the mandrel.

We used a thick wall tube on the inside to support the structure and a correct sized punch. Deep breath and a good whack !

Enjoy.
 
And you might give some thought to strain relief on the tubing, or at least route it in such a way that it is nearly strain-free. I followed the instructions with my 9A and by the time it was ready for inspection one side had come off and I had to crawl back there and re-work them.
 
Static port

Just a comment on the static port itself, since the location is resolved.

I initially used the ACS "STATIC PORT ALUMINUM 15160" due to it's nicer connection to the line and my own stupidity. Big mistake. After much experimentation I have changed to the Vans rivet installed into the base of the old port for the best of both worlds. IAS is now finally accurate. Can't comment on the Dynon port but there are many posts regarding issues with non Vans rivet installations.

Al
 
Just a comment on the static port itself, since the location is resolved.

I initially used the ACS "STATIC PORT ALUMINUM 15160" due to it's nicer connection to the line and my own stupidity. Big mistake. After much experimentation I have changed to the Vans rivet installed into the base of the old port for the best of both worlds. IAS is now finally accurate. Can't comment on the Dynon port but there are many posts regarding issues with non Vans rivet installations.

Al

Yesterday I talked with Van's support (Eric). We discussed the various options. Van's sells the rivet and a nicer port that has a threaded connection. Basically the advice I received was, just don't use a flush port.

I have read about non rivet ports that caused all sorts headaches but others had fine results.

The fancy Van's port looks like it mimics the rivet head.

cat-med_static-kit-port.jpg


The Dynon port looks similar but the area behind the skin is much bigger.
I guess the only sure thing is using the rivet.
 
The new Vans one looks similar to the ones from Cleaveland tools, but the Cleaveland one is designed to be bonded on and use a push-on tubing fitting.

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Push-On-Static-Port-Fittings-pair/productinfo/SPF140/#.Wqmv8NJy5hE

The slightly raised portion fits though a 1/2 hole in the skin.

NOTE - These are quite different from the old ones I put on my -6A. The old ones (10+ years, I think from Cleaveland) were simply flush on the outside and just provided a barbed connection on the inside. They only worked properly after I bonded in a 3/16 flat head rivet and then filed it down to get less than 1 kt error.
 
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Static port

I will add to the confusion. I modified the SafeAir ports. Vans location.
Lots of threads on the mod. Basically the SafeAir port is drilled to accommodate the Vans rivet. It allows the use of the Vans rivet on the exterior for accuracy and the SafeAir fitting on the inside. I ran both to the top to a "T" then back down toward the Port side and forward to the ADAHRS.
 
I will add to the confusion. I modified the SafeAir ports. Vans location.
Lots of threads on the mod. Basically the SafeAir port is drilled to accommodate the Vans rivet. It allows the use of the Vans rivet on the exterior for accuracy and the SafeAir fitting on the inside. I ran both to the top to a "T" then back down toward the Port side and forward to the ADAHRS.

+1 It yielded a 0.12 kt TAS difference with GPS ground speed using 3 leg method (166KTAS). Has the print RV7 location.
That new button with the barb looks good!

RQRK1tC1WKRDDLO906uIskA4xJAE7iBGOYB9wUH3yIDHRkRHaLeIeVRk8oi4ow7I4hqhHH_u8iD3i2ID6xDciZKnCERwJ0BHm_xCnggP7YzOtJhGfV5Ntmn0Mu3HZa5hFv15FfoMSiowy2sXyP3t-V6xpWmxw2UWxfZas3ZpV0382pvECw8Mc32Wx49t_YQlMUTr85kGiu0M-DYD6NHNwmYsUE9fC0EbQ_yr3gFsJGILAxe7oK4rUpPekEuokOpMPxy0xyLWHjmnhmMX1tYBeXg6An5xtuAMxJhwxMZ20KqS8eQRmvdm6ghigMWn2qbplk9Ig7VAByno-EyS7suLVlf-5r5TtN_AB3x4Q3hDdRyCYnMCbVMe0pnqDC-rBmfwM5A-ClSGJ06juse6oeI6RT94YSkDaX0lbQ1c8Z5shfE2oDRHBLaFro0GT3b8ThzG9wqx3Gnr565zoc9VGLCnB7bFX0lOnN98PtGSMkDoGrOq1Upq2GRAmQ-RAQGfdLAe94T0rL6uO_0WzqvIjGmJ9JIzNatpo6KLwR9YtG6cRZCec16nHruB33vuZ1FCIVyQX7UIKfJxUb15ctYdLdnnbqOS6ZcWHJbzXLtzXQl3P5_wc8XtyqqxzSz2-RE-2zIdu2ZxHBaVuMXphoygqsBHbjb4IVIxiFQm=w600
 
I will add to the confusion. I modified the SafeAir ports. Vans location.
Lots of threads on the mod. Basically the SafeAir port is drilled to accommodate the Vans rivet. It allows the use of the Vans rivet on the exterior for accuracy and the SafeAir fitting on the inside. I ran both to the top to a "T" then back down toward the Port side and forward to the ADAHRS.

Nice, I've heard of people doing this.
I mounted one of my Dynon ports to a pice of scrap today. It pretty much has the same profile as a slightly bigger rivet from Vans.
I'm tempted to grind down the protruding head flush with the skin and then drill it out to Vans rivet size and install the rivets (Don't have them yet).

Or, I may just install the Dynon ports :rolleyes: I'm waffling big time on this :p
 
I have the rivet type.
I've been thinking about making some ports myself that replicate the rivet profile but with a thread for a nut on the inside and a barb fitting to fit the 1/8" tubing.

I just checked out the Vans ports. Very nice. EXCEPT they take 1/4" tubing!

So retrofit not so easy. WHY? Why not make them with barbs for 1/8" tubing since that's what the normal kit provides and what many of the existing airplanes have?
 
I have the rivet type.
I've been thinking about making some ports myself that replicate the rivet profile but with a thread for a nut on the inside and a barb fitting to fit the 1/8" tubing.

I just checked out the Vans ports. Very nice. EXCEPT they take 1/4" tubing!

So retrofit not so easy. WHY? Why not make them with barbs for 1/8" tubing since that's what the normal kit provides and what many of the existing airplanes have?

Because Van's doesn't make them, but has offered to stock and sell someone else's product in response to people complaining about the standard rivet being sub-standard :rolleyes:
 
Because Van's doesn't make them, but has offered to stock and sell someone else's product in response to people complaining about the standard rivet being sub-standard :rolleyes:

So, Scott, although the head looks like the same rivet profile, is it actually larger than the standard baffle rivet?

BTW - the vacuum tube barb fittings available at the autoparts are NOT ACCEPTABLE for the static system, they have a mold parting line and will NOT pass the static leak check. Sadly, the voice of experience from using for my manometer test rig.
 
No problems.

I can see where Scot is coming from. We had put the Van's rivets in to start with at the Van's plan sight and they works quite OK. Once we decided to put in the Garmin ADHAR and heated pitot, we looked at getting the Safeair 1 tubing kit in order to make it a nicer installation. The 1/8" N.P.T. fitting that are used in the Safeair kit worked very well so we then went back and looked at the static ports. We found the Wicks P-51 ports that had the 1/8" female on the inside, so we took the Van's out and replaced them with the P-51 ports. Both seam to work about the same even though the Wicks ports are flush and the Van's had the slight crown. I don't quite get it, if you hit the spot of "0" pressure or close to it they both seam to be fine there. We had good luck with the Van's rivets if you bond them well with some RTV. Just what we have seen so far. Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
 
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So, Scott, although the head looks like the same rivet profile, is it actually larger than the standard baffle rivet?

BTW - the vacuum tube barb fittings available at the autoparts are NOT ACCEPTABLE for the static system, they have a mold parting line and will NOT pass the static leak check. Sadly, the voice of experience from using for my manometer test rig.

I haven't personally put a caliper on the new part and the standard supplied rivet and compared them, but my understanding is it was meant to be a copy of the rivet.

Regarding comments of tubes falling off the standard rivets.... I don't see how it is possible unless the instructions are not followed. It specifies a fillet of sealant around the entire perimeter of the tube to skin interface. I use the tip of my index finger which leaves a pretty large radius fillet which does a very good job of keeping the tube attached.

It is well documented by years (decades) of experience that flush static ports cause static pressure errors on an RV. It is not hard to imagine that the degree of error will vary from one airplane to another, but there is likely still some level of error.
 
So, Scott, although the head looks like the same rivet profile, is it actually larger than the standard baffle rivet?

BTW - the vacuum tube barb fittings available at the autoparts are NOT ACCEPTABLE for the static system, they have a mold parting line and will NOT pass the static leak check. Sadly, the voice of experience from using for my manometer test rig.

Thanks Bill! That may well explain the very slow leak that I have been ignoring for years and gave up on. I think I will try getting rid of those barb fittings.
 
Because Van's doesn't make them, but has offered to stock and sell someone else's product in response to people complaining about the standard rivet being sub-standard :rolleyes:

Thanks Scott, that makes sense. I think I will order a set. I have a feeling that Bill's observation explains my slow leak, not an incomplete RTV seal around the backside of the rivet with tube installed. And I have a feeling that the small error in static pressure that I have with the rivets is from a radiused entry into the hole because they were painted, and the paint flowed to make a rounded edge to the holes, which is known to introduce errors. I will take a small drill and carefully cut a nice crisp edge to the holes and see how it works.
 
Thanks Scott, that makes sense. I think I will order a set. I have a feeling that Bill's observation explains my slow leak, not an incomplete RTV seal around the backside of the rivet with tube installed. And I have a feeling that the small error in static pressure that I have with the rivets is from a radiused entry into the hole because they were painted, and the paint flowed to make a rounded edge to the holes, which is known to introduce errors. I will take a small drill and carefully cut a nice crisp edge to the holes and see how it works.

I didn't like the insecurity of the hose being secured on 1/8" of protruded rivet. I made a 1" aluminum disk 1/8" thick) and drilled a 1/4" hole in the center. I inserted a 3/4" long piece of 1/4" 3003 tube in the hole and secured with JB weld. You then adhere the disk to the panel over the protruding rivet with silicone or proseal. This is much more secure and I used a 1/4" PTC connector to attach the 1/4" plastic tubing, getting rid of the 1/8" vynal tubing that was already getting hard and destined to leak.

Idea was borrowed from the Cleveland design.

Larry
 
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Flush port error ?

Now I know why my 3B won?t go VNE at sea level like others claim 😏 The tube fittings I used from wreck I bought were the plastic fittings with threads, so I machined aluminum fittings for the static port with a flush riveted disk flange on the inside of the fuse. The port is dead flush with the skin. Is it really that big a difference from a pull rivet head ? If so, I will use the rivet on my -4 project in shop.
 
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