VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #51  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:19 PM
StuBob StuBob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 248
Default

They don't need a new airplane; they need a new way to help builders. Everyone I know who's completed an RV in less than 10 years was an engineer or someone else who worked with plans professionally. Zenith is giving their builders a read-only copy of the SolidWorks files for their airplanes. I can't imagine how great it would be to see the parts in 3-D from every angle before putting them together. Almost every mistake I've made started with mis-reading the plans.

For instance, the plans show all kinds of little symbols to denote rivet sizes. Imagine being able to hover the mouse over the symbols instead of having to look back and forth between the drawing and the legend.

Or, how many places on the plans are you directed to look at another view, something like "A-A'?" You should be able to click on the spot in question and drag it around until you've seen it from every angle.

The airplanes are pretty mature, but the plans and manuals are due for some modernization. And that's coming from a guy in his 50's!
__________________
Stu F.
Indianapolis (KMQJ)
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:31 PM
Bob Kuykendall's Avatar
Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Douglas Flat, CA
Posts: 569
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLock View Post
To everyone and especially Mr. Mach .26...
We do happen to have that tapered RV wing under development, designed by the guy who developed the RV-10 and RV-14 wing profile...
__________________
Bob Kuykendall
HP-24 kit sailplane
EAA Technical Counselor
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:14 PM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
They don't need a new airplane; they need a new way to help builders. Everyone I know who's completed an RV in less than 10 years was an engineer or someone else who worked with plans professionally... I can't imagine how great it would be to see the parts in 3-D from every angle before putting them together...

...Imagine being able to hover the mouse over the symbols instead of having to look back and forth between the drawing and the legend.

...You should be able to click on the spot in question and drag it around until you've seen it from every angle.

The airplanes are pretty mature, but the plans and manuals are due for some modernization. And that's coming from a guy in his 50's!
I agree with you StuBob, and I am an engineer but I'm in my 60's!
You make some valid points.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/APRS Automatic Position Reporting System

“Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard


"It should be added that the sublime beauty of the facture brings within the realm of discourse the substructure of critical thinking. " -using Doug's Art Critique jargon link and my birthday, I get this!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:18 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
They don't need a new airplane; they need a new way to help builders. Everyone I know who's completed an RV in less than 10 years was an engineer or someone else who worked with plans professionally. Zenith is giving their builders a read-only copy of the SolidWorks files for their airplanes. I can't imagine how great it would be to see the parts in 3-D from every angle before putting them together. Almost every mistake I've made started with mis-reading the plans.

For instance, the plans show all kinds of little symbols to denote rivet sizes. Imagine being able to hover the mouse over the symbols instead of having to look back and forth between the drawing and the legend.

Or, how many places on the plans are you directed to look at another view, something like "A-A'?" You should be able to click on the spot in question and drag it around until you've seen it from every angle.

The airplanes are pretty mature, but the plans and manuals are due for some modernization. And that's coming from a guy in his 50's!
I agree that a lot of the people that take on building an RV are engineer or technical types, but the major majority are not.
In fact with the advancements in the later kits, more and more everyday normal people have taken up the challenge than did 15 - 20 years ago with the more basic kits.

That is not to say that there isn't still room to make the kits even better (there always will be), but we are a long ways from them only being built by engineers.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:13 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,287
Default

The current plans (RV-10 and later) are very good with the occasional oversight. I'm sure the -12 and -14 are better.

One area where I think the current kits could greatly improve would be to do away with all of the bags of assorted parts. Three AN365-1032's, four AN365-1028, three different lengths/diameters of screws and six #8 screws (to make up an example) don't belong together in one bag. UNLESS the plans say "Grab bag 1234 for steps 3-6 of this assembly sequence". I'd be happy with that.

I'd prefer if Vans supplied bags with all of the AN 365 1032's for the sub-kit in one bag, all of the AN3-4A's in another bag, etc. That would let me organize things so when the plans say "2x AN3-4A", I'll know exactly where to find them. With the current (RV-10) system, I have to go to the packing list and figure out what bag that hardware is in, OR, I have to bust open all of the bags when I get the kit and sort all of the hardware to put "like" items together, which is a waste of time.
__________________
Kyle Boatright
Atlanta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019(?) RV-10
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:25 PM
Mach.26's Avatar
Mach.26 Mach.26 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Ozark, AL
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kuykendall View Post
We do happen to have that tapered RV wing under development, designed by the guy who developed the RV-10 and RV-14 wing profile...
Bob I wish you and Steve the greatest of success. Can't wait to see it flying and hopefully own one soon!
__________________
Adam Wright
RV-8 Builder 83611
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-01-2017, 07:16 PM
rv9builder rv9builder is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 689
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
With the current (RV-10) system, I have to go to the packing list and figure out what bag that hardware is in, OR, I have to bust open all of the bags when I get the kit and sort all of the hardware to put "like" items together, which is a waste of time.
When I do the initial kit inventory, I usually write what's inside the brown paper bags on the outside of the bag before I staple them shut again.

After I open the small clear bags and use a few rivets or whatever, I put the half-used bag and remaining parts in a small Ziploc sandwich bag. That way I can still see Van's original label, but don't have to worry about the remaining parts spilling out. If two bags have like items, I'll sometimes put both bags in the same Ziploc bag.
__________________
Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold

VAF donation made for 2018
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:53 PM
N333M's Avatar
N333M N333M is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: central Il
Posts: 52
Default

I think to increase market share in the kitplane biz..a traveling High wing design would bring the most new customers. Along the Glastar theme..but all aluminum of course. a bit bigger in the cockpit than current RV's..2 seats with a good baggage capacity. even an optional 3rd "Jump seat" maybe? I Think it would be pretty easy to get better than Glastar performance if sticking to a alum 150 to 180 hp design. Keeping with simple systems to keep it affordable. This would appeal to the biggest number of folks, and have the potential for the most sales.
__________________
D. Gherardini
Central Illinois
RV9A slider 0-320 carbed
Kitfox IV (SOLD)
Luscombe 8A (for sale)
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-03-2017, 12:53 PM
N333M's Avatar
N333M N333M is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: central Il
Posts: 52
Default

Mr. Lock,
After posting the above last night..I went to bed thinking about this Kit-Plane market. To begin with, I'll confess that I almost bought a Glastar before I found the RV9A I own today. The High-wing, travel suited craft would have been better suited to my mission, ... by just a bit, than the 9A. ( Yes, the RV10 would work ,but that was out of my budget). So, my personal prejudices aside, I have examined in my mind the benefit to the Vans aircraft company of such a product and come to the conclusion, its the best way to increase kit sales. VAC already holds such a huge share of the market now, with designs that are all actually pretty similar, when it comes to the target buyers. Not sure how much increase could be left in that niche. Moving to a High wing design, would have to potential to bring in the most "new customers".
Futhermore, the possibility of a common fuselage, and then offering different wings and Gear configurations to suit the bush plane crowd, as well as the Traveling crowd, the float-plane crowd and etc.. would keep the designers busy for years to come. I can see the evolution of a Vans high wing craft following the proven path the company has already traveled with its current offerings. Sure, there will always be the desires for something faster..something smaller, something bigger among the edges of the market..but the bulk of the buyers are in the middle. This I believe would be the best path for the future generation of folks employed at Vans, to insure a long and successful journey in the production of product. So..just for conversations sake..there you have it! Start with a better than a Glastar type, for the traveling aspects, stick with the current engine choices of 150 to 180 or so..to keep it economical, and room for more of the wife's stuff aboard, and her/our ever widening beam..And I predict immediate success , (also because there is less competition there) then start offering a shorter takeoff, tail dragging big tired model along the same platform to broaden the base and..well...that's a pretty good long term plan to start with right there isnt it?
__________________
D. Gherardini
Central Illinois
RV9A slider 0-320 carbed
Kitfox IV (SOLD)
Luscombe 8A (for sale)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-03-2017, 01:39 PM
dtw_rv6 dtw_rv6 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 335
Default

I would build an all metal version of the Long EZ.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:24 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.