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  #1  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:27 AM
StuBob StuBob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 248
Default Help Me Value This RV-7A

A buddy is considering selling his RV7A, which was finished about 10 years ago. Here's the data to the best of my knowledge:

TT1000 or somewhat less
Avionics/Instruments:
IFD 540. Some audio panel, a Comm 2 with no GPS. Mode C for sure, maybe ADS-B.
TruTrak autopilot coupled to ADI.
King HSI
GRT EIS -- the basic LCD version.
Manual Trim
IFR certification and Condition Inspection up to date.

Engine: O-320, 2000 SMOH. Came out of a Mooney.
Prop: Catto 3-blade composite with nickel leading edges.

The paint is fine, not show-winning. The interior is standard Van's tweed.

1)Assuming I've presented it fairly, what's a ballpark figure for this airplane? What if I have the engine wrong and it's an O-360? Either way, I'm certain about the time.

2) How would you evaluate the health of this engine? All of my ownership is with big-bore Continentals. These Lycoming 4's are a little mysterious.

Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:35 AM
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catmandu catmandu is offline
 
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Low 50's, depending on build quality. Engine is nothing more than a core at this point, value wise.
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Maryland's Eastern Shore
stuck in 1/5th of an Arrow, my partners won't let me go
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:47 AM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
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Originally Posted by catmandu View Post
Low 50's, depending on build quality. Engine is nothing more than a core at this point, value wise.
That's what I was thinking too, but that's what it would be worth to me, and I've been seeing some crazy 'asking' prices out there!

-Marc
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2017, 10:10 AM
StuBob StuBob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 248
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Any contrary opinions?

I was thinking more or less the same thing.

How would you evaluate this engine? "It's running great," after all, "I wouldn't hesitate to take off and cross the Rockies tomorrow with it." Whatever. No matter how well it's running today, it's 2000 hours closer to failure than it was at overhaul!

I'm not a big fan of oil analysis, as it seems no one knows how many false negatives and false positives there are. Four weeks before overhaul, the 500 SMOH engine in my Bonanza "appear[ed] to be aging like a fine wine," according to Blackstone.

On the big Continentals, borescope is important because the valves are generally the first things to go. For the same reason, increasing oil consumption is worth noting. But my understanding on the Lycoming 4's is that the camshaft is the weak link. I doubt the owner will let me pull a jug to look at it. Any other ideas?

Thanks as always.
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:12 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
How would you evaluate this engine? "It's running great," after all, "I wouldn't hesitate to take off and cross the Rockies tomorrow with it." Whatever. No matter how well it's running today, it's 2000 hours closer to failure than it was at overhaul!
Very true. I have been told that some engines go well past 2000 hours before they need an overhaul, if they have been treated well. How common is that? We really don't know. However, "well past TBO" usually seems to mean a couple-few hundred hours, it's not like you're not going to be pulling that engine within the next few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
I'm not a big fan of oil analysis, as it seems no one knows how many false negatives and false positives there are. Four weeks before overhaul, the 500 SMOH engine in my Bonanza "appear[ed] to be aging like a fine wine," according to Blackstone.
And did it wear out or break in those four weeks, or did you simply not believe the report? I'm just curious. As a new airplane owner, I plan to do regular oil analysis on my engine so I'm always looking for others' experiences.

As for the value, if the build quality is good and the paint is something you can live with long term, I don't disagree with the other opinions.
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[i][size="1"]Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:49 AM
SMRacer SMRacer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 400
Default Value

An airplane is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it.

That being said,
I would continue to fly that engine as long as oil analysis, compression checks, and perhaps borescope inspections are completed. BUT, in terms of value in a sale, it would substantially devalue the aircraft.

Other things to consider:
I have been looking for an RV7 for several months. There is almost nothing on the market. Thus enhancing the value of any offerings.
There is some value in the panel. The IFD 540 is worth $10K by itself.

Depending on the appearance and construction quality, I'd advertise this airplane in the $65-70K range. You can always lower the price. You might get lucky and find an A&P who can do the overhaul and doesn't really care that much about the hours on the engine.
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RV4 N444JT (sold)
RV8 N37PK
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  #7  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:33 PM
StuBob StuBob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
And did it wear out or break in those four weeks, or did you simply not believe the report? I'm just curious. As a new airplane owner, I plan to do regular oil analysis on my engine so I'm always looking for others' experiences.
On the IO-520's, the alternator connects directly to the crankshaft by a ring gear inside the crankcase. We pulled the alternator at annual for preventive maintenance and found excessive wear on the ring gear. There was a small amount of metal in the filter, but nothing to get excited about ordinarily -- certainly no readable part numbers, as the received wisdom goes. At teardown, both the crankshaft and the camshaft failed spec and had to be replaced. All with a totally normal oil analysis. So I'm not a fan. Obviously, it's just one data point and everyone has his own anecdote, but that's mine.
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:45 PM
DaveO DaveO is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Greenfield, IN
Posts: 275
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I had looked at the same airplane. I believe the seller is a good man and he said that he would not be afraid to fly it anywhere. I agree that the engine is doing well now. But, at some time the engine is going to need a overhaul. If I bought it now whenever I was ready sell it the engine would have to be done. I chose not to make the purchase for that reason. At that time the seller was not willing to lower the price. Someone is going to have to foot the price of an engine. Who?
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2017, 05:41 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 11,708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
...
How would you evaluate this engine? "It's running great," after all, "I wouldn't hesitate to take off and cross the Rockies tomorrow with it." Whatever. No matter how well it's running today, it's 2000 hours closer to failure than it was at overhaul!
...
Thanks as always.
The problem is that a new owner will not know the history of the engine or how well it has been running for the last 1000 hours and simply won't trust it and will want to replace it.

The other issue is that the O-320 is not a "desirable" engine in the -7. To maximize the selling price you really need a 360, fuel injection, CS prop, slider and the little wheel needs to be up front.

The panel is a bit dated, which also hurts the resale value.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
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  #10  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:19 PM
StuBob StuBob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davoakes@att.net View Post
I had looked at the same airplane. I believe the seller is a good man and he said that he would not be afraid to fly it anywhere. I agree that the engine is doing well now. But, at some time the engine is going to need a overhaul. If I bought it now whenever I was ready sell it the engine would have to be done. I chose not to make the purchase for that reason. At that time the seller was not willing to lower the price. Someone is going to have to foot the price of an engine. Who?
Dave
I agree he's a good man and I think it's a good airplane. I don't mean to disparage either in any way.

Looking at asking prices on Barnstormers, the local consensus might be a little low. But some of those listings have been up for a while. I wish I had access to selling prices.
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