VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 02-24-2020, 07:54 AM
Tankerpilot75 Tankerpilot75 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 474
Default Engine oil heater question

Last year I installed a Reiff Oil Heater on my IO-360. Of course the winter this year is warmer than normal it seems. However my question is the same. Should the sump heater be left plugged in when left in the hangar using the Reiff thermostat to regulate oil temperature? What are the pros and cons?

Iíve discussed this question with several pilots at my airport and their responses go both ways. Iíve noticed when itís left plugged in with full time power the oil is consistently warm (not hot) and the engine compartment feels around 60 to 65 degrees. When I use a wall plug purchased from Ace Hardware that activates only when ambient temperatures drops below 35 degrees, Iíve noticed the oil temperature is significantly lower and the engine compartment reflects ambient temperatures. I assume the temperature controlled wall plug results in more temperature cycles than just leaving it powered full time (therefore I assume greater potential for moisture from condensation).

Wifi activated control is not an option. No cellular access in hangar areas and very poor access at airport.
__________________
Jim Harris, 2008 RV7A, 2nd owner, N523RM
Superior XPIO-360, Hartzel CS prop, Older Aerotronics panel with Dual GRT Horizon WS, EIS, Garmin 340, 335 ads-b out, Dual 430s (non-WAAS), TruTrak 385 A/P w/auto level, Electric trim, Tosten 6 button Military Grips, FlightBox wired to WS, Dynon D10A w/battery backup, 406 MHz ELT. Custom Interior, Great POH!
Retired - Living the dream - going broke!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-24-2020, 08:10 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,301
Default

Do a search, there should be some lengthy discussions on this topic.

I would never leave sump heaters on, with or without a remote temperature controller. The heaters do exactly what they say, heat the sump. The now warm oil will give off whatever moisture it may have and that moisture will plate out on the cold engine parts, like your cam. If you donít soon run the engine the moisture will do what it does. Not what you want.

If you also have the ring cylinder heating elements this problem is mitigated somewhat, but not enough for me.

The standard process is to get to the hangar a little early, plug in the heaters, do all the stuff you need, go get a cup of coffee, then come back and fly.

Carl
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-24-2020, 08:43 AM
BH1166 BH1166 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Eatonton Georgia
Posts: 170
Default Crazy simple and cheap

$18 Walmart heater, 4x6 floor HVAC vent, aluminum tape, rigid/flex ducting 4”, timer and extension cord. I set timer to come on at 5am, show up at airport at 7am...oil and chts 60 +.

__________________
Butch
RV6A Purchased N72TX
2020 Dues Paid
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-24-2020, 08:50 AM
Mark Dickens's Avatar
Mark Dickens Mark Dickens is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,361
Default

As long as you're using multi-grade oil and it's not Minnesota cold out, you shouldn't have a problem with the oil flowing well at start up. IMO, the issue is more of a cylinder temp issue because of the potential of scuffing at start up. I'd hypothesize that you could leave cylinder band heaters on full time (with no sump heat on) and address much of the cold start issue while avoiding the condensation problem. Just a hypothesis though.
__________________
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
www.marksrv8.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-24-2020, 10:53 AM
Bcone1381 Bcone1381 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Chelsea, MI
Posts: 40
Default

Think of a cold glass of water on a warm summer day. Moisture collects on the outside of the cold glass.

Dis-similar temps will result in the engine when you plug in your engine heater. Warmer temps will be near the heat source, colder temps will exist further out. If the heat is left on all winter, then places where the temp/dew point match in the engine are susceptible to collecting moisture like your glass of water all winter long and rust.

A metal prop is a cold sink and will cause the front of the crank to be cold. A constant speed prop may get moisture collecting in its hub.

So these are problems to over come or turn it on before flight. There are solutions to turn on the pre-heater via a cell phone connection before going to the airport.

Last edited by Bcone1381 : 02-24-2020 at 10:59 AM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-24-2020, 10:59 AM
10builder's Avatar
10builder 10builder is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dickens View Post
As long as you're using multi-grade oil and it's not Minnesota cold out, you shouldn't have a problem with the oil flowing well at start up. IMO, the issue is more of a cylinder temp issue because of the potential of scuffing at start up. I'd hypothesize that you could leave cylinder band heaters on full time (with no sump heat on) and address much of the cold start issue while avoiding the condensation problem. Just a hypothesis though.
I recall a recent discussion (Superior webinar maybe) regarding the cylinder band heaters causing rust to appear in a ring shape internally on the cylinders. No indications of short or extended usage, but just an observation.
__________________
Brian S.
Arrington, TN
SPA Panther N87XP
RV-10 N104BS (Sold)
2020 VAF donation cheerfully submitted!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-24-2020, 11:27 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,674
Default

I spoke to Allen Barrett about leaving an engine heater on all the time and he absolutely not. As pointed out above, they cause condensation, which causes internal rust.

Can you get to the hangar early, turn on your heater, and go for breakfast while your engine warms up?

See this Lycoming document for cold weather operations.

That Lycoming document states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycoming
... For most Lycoming models, preheat should be applied anytime temperatures are at 10˚ F or lower. The exception to this rule is the 76 series models that include the O-320-H, and the O/LO-360-E. These engines should be preheated when temperatures are below 20˚ F...
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 02-24-2020 at 11:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-24-2020, 11:43 AM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 4,882
Default

I'll plug mine in the night before sometimes, but don't just leave it on all the time.
__________________
Greg Niehues - PPSEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 560 hrs and counting!
Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-24-2020, 11:57 AM
Tankerpilot75 Tankerpilot75 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 474
Default Consensus

Okay. Iíll unplug!
__________________
Jim Harris, 2008 RV7A, 2nd owner, N523RM
Superior XPIO-360, Hartzel CS prop, Older Aerotronics panel with Dual GRT Horizon WS, EIS, Garmin 340, 335 ads-b out, Dual 430s (non-WAAS), TruTrak 385 A/P w/auto level, Electric trim, Tosten 6 button Military Grips, FlightBox wired to WS, Dynon D10A w/battery backup, 406 MHz ELT. Custom Interior, Great POH!
Retired - Living the dream - going broke!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:09 PM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
been here awhile
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,170
Default

My sump heater runs 24/7 four months of the year, CHT and oil temps above 80*F all the time....the RV thinks it is in Florida for the winter. Nineteen years since overhaul on the heater, no signs of rust.
__________________
Sam Buchanan
1999 RV-6
1918 Fokker D.VII replica

Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 02-24-2020 at 12:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:07 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.