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First RV-10 flight

D

Drumwright

I'm New Here
I am considering purchasing a RV-10 from the second owner. It is a beautiful, immaculately built airplane with everything I could conceivably want in an airplane.
I was really ramped up to fly her and the owner was kind enough to allow me to fly the plane (with him in the right seat). I loved everything about the plane except it felt like I was flying in a tin can. Based on the price and the hype I suppose I expected it to have the feel of a more luxurious airplane.
I'm an older guy and my wife and I like our comforts, and I would want anyone flying with us to feel they are in a substantial, comfortable airplane.
To put it another way, I guess I was expecting the ride of a Lexus when it felt more like the ride of a Jeep.
I am trying to determine if my expectations were unrealistic, or perhaps I just had a bad day (I was a little under the weather), or whether there is a substantial difference in sound insulation, etc.
I would appreciate some feedback.
 
I can appreciate your desires. Have you experienced any other aircraft to make a comparison ? There is a lot to say about sound deadening in a home built; maybe the builder did not build much into the aircraft. Or are you saying the ride was rough? Did you feel that the aircraft was flimsy when you grasp the doors, or the seats?
Please give ore specifics.
Thanks
Dave
 
Welcome to VAF

Gerald, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

A good set of noise canceling headphones will help with the "tin can" sound.

If you are referring to the ride etc, remember that lighter is better when building airplanes-------more weight will feel more "solid", but at the cost of performance.

I had a full headliner, door panels, and carpet in our 10, never had any sense of it being anything less than a wonderful aircraft.
 
[email protected] said:
I can appreciate your desires. Have you experienced any other aircraft to make a comparison ? There is a lot to say about sound deadening in a home built; maybe the builder did not build much into the aircraft. Or are you saying the ride was rough? Did you feel that the aircraft was flimsy when you grasp the doors, or the seats?
Please give ore specifics.
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Dave. Most of my time has been in my Cessna 172. The RV seemed louder than my 172 but it might just be what I am accustomed to. I have flown right seat in a Bonanza. It's been a few years but a don't recall a similar experience. I am thinking that I need to fly / ride in a couple of different airplanes for comparison.
I was wearing my Lightspeed headset but now I'm wondering if the battery was dead on those.
The airplane appears to be well built, no expense spared, otherwise.
As you can tell, I'm confused. I'll probably get my wife to take a spin to see what she thinks.
Thanks again.
 
Mike S said:
Gerald, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

A good set of noise canceling headphones will help with the "tin can" sound.

If you are referring to the ride etc, remember that lighter is better when building airplanes-------more weight will feel more "solid", but at the cost of performance.

I had a full headliner, door panels, and carpet in our 10, never had any sense of it being anything less than a wonderful aircraft.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight Mike.
 
A few comments:
It will be louder than a 172. You're close behind an engine that is more than 50% more powerful (engine/prop noise) and going a lot faster (wind noise). For the same reason, "small" bumps to the 172 will be more pronounced in the -10. Want to have just small bumps? slow to 110 KIAS!
The -10's handling (all RVs for that matter) is not "jeep like", but rather "MG (or other sports car) like", by design. This makes them a delight to fly VFR, with light control forces and great responsiveness. It also makes them less stable, prone to wander off altitude unless actively controlled.
Noise is a tough nut to crack. If you reduce the cabin noise by 50% (cut it in half!) your ear will barely notice the difference; it's just the way human ears work. But, as an EAB owner, you may install as much (or as little) sound insulation as you desire! One of the best materials is lead sheet, so think about the performance trade-offs! I know of one RV-10 that went all out for comfort and noise reduction (think Lexus). When he was done, and he put in full fuel, he had 400 lbs left to bring the plane to Vans' recommended 2700 lb gross weight. It was a 2 person airplane! But it was his choice. (Also pay attention to the fact that the front seats in a -10 have been designed with vertical impact crash-worthiness in mind. Modify them at your own risk.)
For the record, my choices were: Good noise attenuation headphones. Cabin noise is now not an issue. Virtually no sound insulation, minimal cabin "dressing". Not so pretty, but I can carry 4 180 lb people, some bags, and full gas, and still be under the 2700 lb gross. And cruise 160 KTAS on 10 gal/hr.
 
BobTurner said:
A few comments:
It will be louder than a 172. You're close behind an engine that is more than 50% more powerful (engine/prop noise) and going a lot faster (wind noise). For the same reason, "small" bumps to the 172 will be more pronounced in the -10. Want to have just small bumps? slow to 110 KIAS!
The -10's handling (all RVs for that matter) is not "jeep like", but rather "MG (or other sports car) like", by design. This makes them a delight to fly VFR, with light control forces and great responsiveness. It also makes them less stable, prone to wander off altitude unless actively controlled.
Noise is a tough nut to crack. If you reduce the cabin noise by 50% (cut it in half!) your ear will barely notice the difference; it's just the way human ears work. But, as an EAB owner, you may install as much (or as little) sound insulation as you desire! One of the best materials is lead sheet, so think about the performance trade-offs! I know of one RV-10 that went all out for comfort and noise reduction (think Lexus). When he was done, and he put in full fuel, he had 400 lbs left to bring the plane to Vans' recommended 2700 lb gross weight. It was a 2 person airplane! But it was his choice. (Also pay attention to the fact that the front seats in a -10 have been designed with vertical impact crash-worthiness in mind. Modify them at your own risk.)
For the record, my choices were: Good noise attenuation headphones. Cabin noise is now not an issue. Virtually no sound insulation, minimal cabin "dressing". Not so pretty, but I can carry 4 180 lb people, some bags, and full gas, and still be under the 2700 lb gross. And cruise 160 KTAS on 10 gal/hr.
Click to expand...

Bob, thanks for the reply and advice. Your comments make a lot of sense. It appears I'm a victim of erroneous expectations.
 
From my experience, if you're comparing to a Bonanza, most single engine airplanes will sound like a Jeep. I have flown many Cessnas, owned a Piper, a Lancair and now a Mooney (building and RV10). All these planes had similar noise characteristics. One day a friend asked me to serve as safety pilot so he could get his IFR recency approaches in. He flew a Bonanza. When he started it up, I was SHOCKED as how quiet it was. His plane sounded more like my car than any plane I'd ever flown and it was immediately noticeable. This was my first flight in a Bonanza and I really couldn't believe how quiet it was. I love my Mooney, but after flying in his Bonanza, I thought it now sounded like a loud Jeep.

FWIW, I wanted the same level of noise for the RV10 I'm building. But after MUCH research and talking to others who have done extensive noise deadening in thier build, I've decided to let my noise cancelling headphones and interior carpet and side panels be my primary noise reduction plan. The cost VS weight VS benefit just doesn't seem to be a good tradeoff to add things like foam to the build.

Noise in airplanes is probably like every other tradeoff in flying. A little better of "X" (speed, weight capacity, seats, etc...) will cost you exponentially more dollars over the benefit. It really comes down to what one is willing to spend for that benefit.
 
Weasel said:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=142608

I can appreciate your observations.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reference to the previous thread. This is all good information and helps me to make an informed decision. Thanks for your candor. I know it's not popular to point out RV-10 weaknesses in this forum but it is really helpful to know the pros and cons. I'm still very positive about the airplane.

I fly out of Tupelo, MS so I share your pain regarding the heat, and wondered how the RV-10 handled our summer sun. My 172, with the high wing is not too bad.

I did notice that the RV-10 was somewhat difficult to get into and out of but I'm in my late 60's so nothing is easy. Also, I figure that gets better with time when you develop a "system", much like my 172.

Regarding the wheel pants, line guys have totally destroyed the front wheel pant on my 172 by using incorrect towing technique / equipment. I can only imagine what they would do to the RV-10.
 
Drumwright said:
I did notice that the RV-10 was somewhat difficult to get into and out of but I'm in my late 60's so nothing is easy. Also, I figure that gets better with time when you develop a "system", much like my 172.
Click to expand...

OK, great info here------I am also late 60s, and went from a RV 10 to a 172. I find the 172 vastly harder to get into than the RV 10 was.

Pretty sure I will develop the correct "system" for getting in/out of the 172------

Practice practice and then more practice
 
rvanstory said:
From my experience, if you're comparing to a Bonanza, most single engine airplanes will sound like a Jeep. I have flown many Cessnas, owned a Piper, a Lancair and now a Mooney (building and RV10). All these planes had similar noise characteristics. One day a friend asked me to serve as safety pilot so he could get his IFR recency approaches in. He flew a Bonanza. When he started it up, I was SHOCKED as how quiet it was. His plane sounded more like my car than any plane I'd ever flown and it was immediately noticeable. This was my first flight in a Bonanza and I really couldn't believe how quiet it was. I love my Mooney, but after flying in his Bonanza, I thought it now sounded like a loud Jeep.

FWIW, I wanted the same level of noise for the RV10 I'm building. But after MUCH research and talking to others who have done extensive noise deadening in thier build, I've decided to let my noise cancelling headphones and interior carpet and side panels be my primary noise reduction plan. The cost VS weight VS benefit just doesn't seem to be a good tradeoff to add things like foam to the build.

Noise in airplanes is probably like every other tradeoff in flying. A little better of "X" (speed, weight capacity, seats, etc...) will cost you exponentially more dollars over the benefit. It really comes down to what one is willing to spend for that benefit.
Click to expand...

Randy, thanks for the comments. Yes, I'm beginning the understand the trade-offs so, as usual with an airplane, I'm forced to decide what is most important to me and my wife, my most frequent passenger. Fortunately my wife likes fast and sporty. I may be the fuddy duddy.
 
Mike S said:
OK, great info here------I am also late 60s, and went from a RV 10 to a 172. I find the 172 vastly harder to get into than the RV 10 was.

Pretty sure I will develop the correct "system" for getting in/out of the 172------

Practice practice and then more practice
Click to expand...

Funny! My system for the 172 is to put left foot on the step and swing the right foot into the plane.
I'm curious why you went to the 172 from the RV-10. I love my 172 but we have kids and grandkids scattered from Florida to California so the 172 is just too slow.
 
Drumwright said:
I'm curious why you went to the 172 from the RV-10.
Click to expand...

Mainly economics. My wife retired and we were able to generate a wad of cash that way.

Plan was to build another homebuilt, but the 172 kinda fell into our hands.

Also, my wife has been wanting to get her license and was intimidated by the 10----the 172 is perfect for her to finish up her training in.
 
Mike S said:
OK, great info here------I am also late 60s, and went from a RV 10 to a 172. I find the 172 vastly harder to get into than the RV 10 was.

Pretty sure I will develop the correct "system" for getting in/out of the 172------

Practice practice and then more practice
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I find that assessment surprising. I guess it's a personal thing as I'm just the opposite finding entry into the 172/182/206 significant easier for me and for inexperienced passengers. And I'm still a very physically nimble 5'11" 190 at this point. If Vans's were to come out with their version of a 182 I'd be the first in line.

To the OP, the 10 is not a perfect airplane by any stretch but it does provides great value in my opinion. It's an honest airplane that's a good all-around performer.
 
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