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Ferrous Metal in Oil Filter

Kwright

Active Member
IAW Champion AV-6R, I cut open and inspected the oil filter, Champion CH48110-1, on the O 360 A1A engine in my RV6. I picked up some metal with a magnet in the plets of the filter element. So, I went on to rinse the element out in solvent and this is what I found. Its about 1/16th of a teaspoon of fine metal granuals and slivers.
16aw4ma.jpg





Engine has 200 hours SMOH accomplished in July of 1999. First ran in January 2010. Talked to the engine shop that overhuled the engine, consulted Mike Bush's articals, as many AP/IAs as I could find, local experts, and Lycoming SBs.

Responses range from "that's a lot of metal" to "check it again in 10 hours."
Most likely cause "cam or lifters."

I'll update the thread when I recheck the filter.
 
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Additives

Nope. No oil additives. Seems there is a lot of controversy one the use of oil additives with the exception of Cam Guard.
 
200 hours over 13 years is ripe for the conditions that cause spalled tappets. I would say you will see this continue so I would pull a cylinder and evaluate.
 
Pull a cylinder and evaluate

Yep! That's what I'm thinking. Wondering though about pullin a mag to evaluate the accessory drive gears or pulling the govenor.
 
The best way to evaluate the accessory case components is by removing the sump and looking up. But due to the fineness of the junk in your filter I would suspect its from a tappet.
 
Suspect it's from a tappet - if so then what

Tappet pitting and cam lobe mushrooming damage does seem very likely. If that is the case the next decision is weather or not to continue to run it. Run it until wear results in 1/2 teaspoon of material. Or ground the engine, split the case and inspect and repair.
 
The difference between now and waiting is the possibility of trashing parts that may be repairable at this point. The cam possibly could be ok at this point in time but if you let it go on you're more likely to damage it.
 
Failure is imminent, might as well bite the bullet now and tear it down, and like rocketbob said, its only going to make things worse the longer you run it.
 
MCD

I have been in the turbine Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) overhaul world for 24 years, I completely agree, it?s time to take this engine apart before failure and emergency landing, don?t take the risk! That level of metal is not good.
 
I would not disagree or argue with any of the previous comments. However, I had a similar amount of metal in my 0320 Bucker a few years ago and it caused obvious concern. I also received a host of opinions similar to what you had received before you posted.

We decided, right or wrong, due to the high engine time and impending rebuild, to let it go and recheck at 10 hours. There was less metal. We checked again at 25. Less metal still. Subsequent oil changes showed little to no metal and it has been that way ever since.

My circumstances may be very different than yours, so please, accept this as only another data point to consider. My engine was/is high time, over 2300 hours today since new, never been topped. It was only ran about 10 hours a year for many years, but it ran regularily.

I liked to take advantage of the inverted systems in the Bucker. The prior owner did very little upside down stuff and no negative g's. We think my more agressive flying dredged up years of accumulated "stuff" in the sump. Some of that stuff was metal that had accumulated through normal wear.
I have no proof of this theory, but my engine has been happily running along with good power for many happy years since I found that initial metal.
 
If his style of flying has not changed appreciably recently (dredging up sludge as alluded to above), then if it were my engine the only additional flying time it would make would be to get it to the location where the teardown would take place.
 
Its one thing if you see aluminum or bronze in filter, its another to see steel. When you see steel only other steel components cause the wear and that will get my attention.
 
My experience last year is only one data point, but it was an attention getter. Steel shards in the filter, no real visible problems with cam. All previous filter inspections (1280 hours) showed little or nothing. Same pro/con advice as on this thread. We did a tear down, and found the crankshaft gear not far from failing (which would mean a sudden quietness at some point). Nothing in sump screen.

I'd tear it down.
 
You are very good about keeping up with your thread

I am very impressed with your attention to your thread and providing timely feedback to poster's questions. I just went to the Lycoming school within the past couple of weeks so I feel like I know something but I know I should keep my fingers off of the keyboard because it is classroom knowledge not real work experience. OK all of the poor little me talk aside, you know the engine hasn't been used but on the average of around 17 hours a year and Joe Doebler our Lycoming instructor hammered it into us that the biggest problem with their engine is lack of regular use and the resulting rust. The sloped cam lobes and the convex cam follower surface are designed to work with each other but the rust on these surfaces can lead to wear on the high edge of the cam lobes and spalling of the cam follower surface, which is the bad thing I think the experts are concerned about but for sure the rust is going to get knocked off into the oil and sump. There is no possibility that the contaminated oil will not get into the filter. Lycoming has a failure criterion for this condition which has not been met and your local "in the business" people have said go ten more hours and check it again. My question is why would you not use it and see if it is a temporary condition due to lack of use or the dreaded failure mode? Or, why would you automatically jump to the worst case scenario? It makes me remember why we decided to build our own airplane for retirement.

Bob Axsom
 
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Steel showing up in the filter! It's your *** in the pilots seat and maybe your loved one or best friend with you.
 
Just went through this with my Cherokee motor.

This is what my cam lobes looked like -

2pq71bb.jpg


And the tappets (ugh!) -

x43rxt.jpg


It was time. Doing it early is less costly than watchful waiting. BTW, the Lycoming school was great for doing the work (with an IA supervising & signing off).

Dan
 
Why not follow "local in the business" advice?

The engine sat from the date of overhual, July 1999, until date first flown, in January 2010. During that time it was in a preserved state and in a dry climate. So, not sure it strictly meets the criteria of an inactive engine. Since first flown it has flown weekly. If I could I would fly it every day, but increasing fuel costs require some curtailment of my flight activities.

I have flown 8 hours out of the recommended 10. It's not only the local business recommendation but it is also what I believe the Lycoming recommends (Lycoming Flyer, pg 80). However, that does't make it any easier to fly those hours when it is also stated that metal in screens and filter can lead to catastrophic failure (ibid). This is something that I take seriously.

I am trying my best to employ a logical Risk Management process here and as I interprete the data it now indicats that risk increases on every hour flown until the source and extent of the abnormal condition is known. The worst case senerio, catastrophic failure, is unacceptable. Granted, "On small amount of shiny flakes or small amounts of short hair-like bits of magnetic material. Experiance has shown that engines are sometimes pulled unnecessarily." (ibid)
 
Pulling a cylinder to have a looksee is really not a big deal. We're not talking about a complete teardown.
 
Which Cylinder?

Pulling a cylinder to have a looksee is really not a big deal. We're not talking about a complete teardown.
So if one wanted to get the best look possible at the tappets and cam lobes, would the #2 or #3 cylinder come off? Or does it matter which one?
 
Additional relevant information

Dean,
The camshaft - tappet face is an extremely critical area in the engine. Minor rust pitting is a formula for spalling, which in turn eventually ruins the cam and it?s corresponding tappet or tappets. Some shops/mechanics will be more tolerant in this area, then others but all should be very careful in this area. So what one mechanic might pass, another might fail. There is no cut and dried tolerance . . . What you consider minor or insignificant, very well might be and then again it might be very bad. . . .In most cases rust pitting and the eventual spalling it causes, isn?t a catastrophic failure type thing. It is a relatively slow cancer that will ruin the cam and very likely other parts in the engine, if the cam situation is left to blossom from its initial stages.

To repair a spalled camshaft requires the same amount of work and initial expense of the prop strike inspection you just had done. The engine has to come all the way apart and if nothing else has been affected by the cam failure you just replace the cam, tappets, bearings, rod nuts and bolts and gaskets. If the pistons are shot with metal impregnation they too must go and sometimes also oil pumps are scored and possibly crankshaft journals can suffer significantly as well. So there are other financial internal risks other then just the cam and tappets if it is left to progress. So fixing a bad cam is very expensive, to say the least. . . .
Good Luck,
Mahlon
?The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."

Mahlon's insight from another thread appears approprite and will not be overlooked.

I continue to review available information and have noticed a difference in the way Champion and Lycoming recommend that a oil filter should be examined. Lycoming recommends spreading the element out and examin. Because the metal is so small and fine, Had followed that procedure I would not have found the metal. It was not until I used a magnet that metal became apparent.

I did find one NTSB accident involving sudden engine stoppage of a O 360 on an RV-6. It occurred in March 2012, in Bow, WA. Only a preliminary report is available. Though Washington is in a more corrosive moist area than mine, it may be relevant to the metal in oil filter issue.
 
I'll ask questions rather than speculating since I know very little about these engines:

1. Does the filter inspection require flushing the filter element through a filter paper? I have not heard anyone else doing so and was not shown to do it this way. Is this normal procedure? It seems rather extreme and may be over indicating the problem.

2. You say you are using no additives in the oil, but have you recently switched to a detergent type oil? Ie from straight mineral to W100 or W100+. If so then you may have released a buildup of sludge which may have trapped some of this. I did read a Lycoming sb that delt with this issue, iirc they required an oil change after 5 hours because of the release of the sludge and what it contained.

That said, if I were in your boots I would probably get a specialist to look over my shoulder while I pulled a couple of cylinders to inspect the cam and lifters.

Good luck,
 
Filter examination procedure and change in type of oil

From Champion AV-6R http://www.championaerospace.com/assets/AV6-R-Nov2004.pdf:

Use the following recommended procedures to inspect full- flow oil filters.
? Remove the filter from the engine and place it on a drain tray. Allow oil to drain through a clean cloth to determine if foreign material drains from the filter.
? Using the Champion CT-923 Can Cutter, open the filter . . . .
? Using a clean plastic bucket containing approximately one pint of clean Varsol, swish the filter element around in the Varsol to loosen entrapped metal or other contaminants.
? Using a clean magnet, work the magnet around in the Varsol. Ferrous metal particles in the solution should adhere to the magnet for inspection.
? After all ferrous metal particles have been retrieved with the magnet, pour the remaining Varsol through another clean shop rag, and any nonferrous metals should be detectable in bright light.

This is certainly a more substantial examination of the filter than that described in Lycoming Service Instrction No. 1492D. However, I am unable to determine if it is "over indicating the problem."

Phillips XC 20W 50 has been used since overhaul.
 
From Champion AV-6R http://www.championaerospace.com/assets/AV6-R-Nov2004.pdf:

Use the following recommended procedures to inspect full- flow oil filters.
? Remove the filter from the engine and place it on a drain tray. Allow oil to drain through a clean cloth to determine if foreign material drains from the filter.
? Using the Champion CT-923 Can Cutter, open the filter . . . .
? Using a clean plastic bucket containing approximately one pint of clean Varsol, swish the filter element around in the Varsol to loosen entrapped metal or other contaminants.
? Using a clean magnet, work the magnet around in the Varsol. Ferrous metal particles in the solution should adhere to the magnet for inspection.
? After all ferrous metal particles have been retrieved with the magnet, pour the remaining Varsol through another clean shop rag, and any nonferrous metals should be detectable in bright light.

This is certainly a more substantial examination of the filter than that described in Lycoming Service Instrction No. 1492D. However, I am unable to determine if it is "over indicating the problem."

Phillips XC 20W 50 has been used since overhaul.

I do exactly this but take it one step further and cut out the filter paper and run the magnet through the pleats. I do not believe you can over indicate. Your always making metal, but on a healthy engine, it ain't much. My 500SN I0-360 has never shown anything, nada, not, nothing. My 2300SN 0320 consistantly shows very small amounts, less than an 1/8"circle of stuff when consolidated.
You will play **** getting the metal off the magnet. I cover mine with a thin piece of surgical glove.
 
By all means, check out the EAA video on oil filter inspection. One comment on it however: its actually kind of tough to cut out the paper on the larger size oil filters, and a bit of a safety hazard for your fingers. It's also not clear to me what the point of doing that is when you can just put the whole thing in the solvent wash without ever cutting out the paper.
Any thoughts to the contrary?
Erich
 
Washing a filter out with solvent, pouring thru rags, etc? Thats crazy talk. Just cut out the pleats, wrap them in paper towels, then squeeze the oil out with your bench vise. Takes all of 30 seconds to do and you will see every bit of trash in your filter.
 
Not sure about the crazy talk....I think the point of the solvent wash and rag treatment is to consolidate all the debris into a neat little pile that can quantified a little better and perhaps be segregated by type. Not much trouble to do really.

Erich
 
While you're at it you should look at the pleats with a scanning electron microscope, and perform a spectral analysis on every flake you find to determine the origin.
 
While you're at it you should look at the pleats with a scanning electron microscope, and perform a spectral analysis on every flake you find to determine the origin.

Won't do you much good, unless you are also running the oil through a mass-spec analyzer... ;)
 
Washing a filter out with solvent, pouring thru rags, etc? Thats crazy talk. Just cut out the pleats, wrap them in paper towels, then squeeze the oil out with your bench vise. Takes all of 30 seconds to do and you will see every bit of trash in your filter.

I will follow what I was taught which is exactly how the EAA video presents. I am sure you're correct Bob, but I don't change oil everyday, it is a few times a year, so the extra minute or two it takes to do the procedure isn't a big deal to me.
I will categorize what I do as "not sure if it helps, but it sure doesn't hurt".
 
Another Data Point

3038cae.jpg

Gathered this amount of material from another Champion 48110 oil filter.
2d8peom.jpg

Here is the material on a magnet that was placed inside a glove so that the material could be removed from the magnet and placed in a bag to quantify the amount for comparison to other samples. This sample is clearly significantlly more than the sample showed in the picture that started the thread. This sample was also obtained by washing the filter element in a solvent. It was allowed to sit and the solvent poured off and left for the balance to evaporate. The residual was scraped from the container and gathered into a bag. The entire contents of the bag was then exposed to a magnet of which attracted all of the material.
 
If this was the next filter, I'm with Bob for sure. You just won an overhaul. Don't forget the cooler flush and governor if you've got one.
 
metal

been through this a bunch. You have a cam and/or lifter problem. cheaper to tear it down now than wait, have the cam and lifters reground or replaced before you have to do the entire engine.

Regards,

Gary
 
Don't let these SIMPLE engines scare you. Get the manuals. Anyone with even a half a brain can rebuild one... on and off the aircraft in a few days if they are prepared. :)
 
Don't let these SIMPLE engines scare you. Get the manuals. Anyone with even a half a brain can rebuild one... on and off the aircraft in a few days if they are prepared. :)

That advice is not universally accepted. Mike Busch, of Savvy
Aircraft Maintenance fame, and a regular EAA webinar presenter advises that any time multiple cylinders are to be removed that the work be done by a respected engine shop. The reason for this is that you are removing multiple case through-bolts, and there is the potential for uneven tightening and misalignment upon their reinstallation that can cause serious problems. This advice from the guy who preaches to anyone that will listen on how to minimize maintenance.

Erich
 
That advice is not universally accepted. Mike Busch, of Savvy
Aircraft Maintenance fame, and a regular EAA webinar presenter advises that any time multiple cylinders are to be removed that the work be done by a respected engine shop. The reason for this is that you are removing multiple case through-bolts, and there is the potential for uneven tightening and misalignment upon their reinstallation that can cause serious problems. This advice from the guy who preaches to anyone that will listen on how to minimize maintenance.

Erich

Yup... they make a BUTTT load of money preaching too. Get the Manuals and it is a no brainer... well some brains I guess. You need to know how to read.
 
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Yup... they make a BUTTT load of money preaching too.

Wow, not sure why you think this is true. The webinars Mike does are free on the EAA website, his articles are available in Sport Aviation and the Avweb archives, and he came and gave a 2 hr presentation at my EAA chapter at no charge afterwhich he answered all questions until folks couldnt think pf anymore. He also has a FREE service (for now) to evaluate engine monitor data. He hasn't made a cent from me yet has been an invaluable source of info. I don't think money is his motivation.
Erich
 
I'd add that I think it's slightly beyond reading the overhaul manual - not too far, but not quite so simple.

My perspective is from having done an engine and having attended the Lycoming school. Opinions may vary, but mine is that you would do well with the school or similar "hands on" experience.

Dan
 
advises that any time multiple cylinders are to be removed that the work be done by a respected engine shop. The reason for this is that you are removing multiple case through-bolts, and there is the potential for uneven tightening and misalignment upon their reinstallation that can cause serious problems.

There is no misalignment that can happen because the thru-bolt holes are drilled and reamed at the factory, and for them to wear to a point where there would be misalignment would be highly unlikely. Lycoming does not specify tolerances of fit in the OH manual but they do in a service instruction. On some Continentals I've worked on the fit of the thru-studs are sloppy and there are also no fit tolerances specified in the manual, but those engines have dowel pins on parting surfaces to set alignment. In other words, the fit of the thru studs can be sloppy and thats acceptable, but I don't put them together that way. I have reamed and gone oversize with a tight fit. I wouldn't rehash internet knowledge here unless you have the practical experience to back it up.

As far as tightening goes, there is also a SI on the order of how the bolts are torqued. I know how to read and operate a torque wrench and don't work in a repair station so your logic is flawed there also.
 
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