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Ready to order the engine...any thoughts?

jfisher

Active Member
Hey gang.

Half-way thru our 14A build and I need to order the engine soon.

Planning on the Thunderbolt 390 (red) with Airflow Perf injection, 74" Hartzell alum prop, Vetterman exhaust, and backup alt. For the ingition, am planning to go with 1 slick mag and 1 new SDS CPI-2.

I've researched this for months and am thinking this should be a good combo for my mission. Being a first-time builder I would welcome any comments on my choices. Am I missing something?

Thanks, Jim
 
@jfisher You'll love the thunderbolt! What backup alt are you going to use?

Also, I don't want to start a electronic ignition war as I am not an expert and have never owned one, this is just a data point ... but I have not had any problems with starting the IO-390 cold or hot once I started priming for just 1 second, it starts right up every time. My first 50 hours I was over priming.
 
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Hi Jim,
Perhaps if you can share your mission, it may help us understand your choices and why.

I am hesitant to offer any opinion since you seem to have put the time and effort to research and know your option.

Having said that, I see nothing wrong with the selected options as you have described above and I have no doubt it will be great flying machine.
 
If you're going to add things like fuel pump cooling shroud or 90 deg oil filter adapter, it's nice to have them installed during the build.
 
Hey gang.

Half-way thru our 14A build and I need to order the engine soon...

Thanks, Jim

When you say half-way where in the build is that? I just started the fuselage a couple months back and am kind of wandering when I should order mine.

- Kilroy
 
Jim, best advice I can give ya... take it easy and order that engine (and avionics...) as late as u can. Amongst a few things a couple of ADs might just pop-up as soon as you get that collection of once upon a time moving parts...
Sure knows how easily one can get excited ordering “stuff”, but don’t commit yourself to anything unless ya’r really ready to install it. Right now, latest 2morrow.
 
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@jfisher You'll love the thunderbolt! What backup alt are you going to use?

Also, I don't want to start a electronic ignition war as I am not an expert and have never owned one, this is just a data point ... but I have not had any problems with starting the IO-390 cold or hot once I started priming for just 1 second, it starts right up every time. My first 50 hours I was over priming.

You make a good point. I haven't decided yet to go with EI, and your words are refreshing. Appreciate your input. Haven't decided on the alt. Thinking B&C.
 
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When you say half-way where in the build is that? I just started the fuselage a couple months back and am kind of wandering when I should order mine.

- Kilroy

Hey Kilroy.

Been following your videos. Nice job BTW. We decided to go with QB fuse and wings. Almost done with the canopy and will have her on the gear in a month. Nothing left in finish kit but fiberglass leggins and pants, along with tail feather tips. That should take the rest of the summer.

QB wings should be here by Aug. Hope to finish those in about a month. So I probably need to get some money down on the engine as that looks like possibly Oct-Nov till Lycoming can ship. It's all new to me, but hopefully we can have things show up on time.
 
Hey gang.

Half-way thru our 14A build and I need to order the engine soon.

Planning on the Thunderbolt 390 (red) with Airflow Perf injection, 74" Hartzell alum prop, Vetterman exhaust, and backup alt. For the ingition, am planning to go with 1 slick mag and 1 new SDS CPI-2.

I've researched this for months and am thinking this should be a good combo for my mission. Being a first-time builder I would welcome any comments on my choices. Am I missing something?

Thanks, Jim

Jim,

Good evening. Congrats on getting to this exciting juncture.

If you plan on the Thunderbolt engine with a backup alternator and possible electronic ignition, there are some fuel and oil hose changes that occur as a result of changes to the standard setup. With the help of a lot of beta test builders, we have been able to test fit and figure out the changes required to the hose lengths for nearly every configuration that RV14 builders are using.

We support firewall forward hose kits for everything from the stock configuration to Thunderbolt with FM150, Dual PMAG, backup alt and upright oil filter adapter.

Take care,
Steve
 
Hey Kilroy.

Been following your videos. Nice job BTW. We decided to go with QB fuse and wings. Almost done with the canopy and will have her on the gear in a month. Nothing left in finish kit but fiberglass leggins and pants, along with tail feather tips. That should take the rest of the summer.

QB wings should be here by Aug. Hope to finish those in about a month. So I probably need to get some money down on the engine as that looks like possibly Oct-Nov till Lycoming can ship. It's all new to me, but hopefully we can have things show up on time.

👍 I appreciate it. Okay cool I have a ways to go then. I was going to order mine at Oshkosh this year but that can certainly wait. Looks like I'll be ordering the finishing kit instead.
 
What slowed me down was the instrument panel, which I outsource to a popular vendor. Told 3 months, took 7. A simple VFR w/ autopilot, wire harness, no changes.
Staff, product was excellent though. I will use them again, just sooner.

R
 
What slowed me down was the instrument panel, which I outsource to a popular vendor. Told 3 months, took 7. A simple VFR w/ autopilot, wire harness, no changes.
Staff, product was excellent though. I will use them again, just sooner.

R

Good to know.
Thanks.
 
Jim,

Good evening. Congrats on getting to this exciting juncture.

If you plan on the Thunderbolt engine with a backup alternator and possible electronic ignition, there are some fuel and oil hose changes that occur as a result of changes to the standard setup. With the help of a lot of beta test builders, we have been able to test fit and figure out the changes required to the hose lengths for nearly every configuration that RV14 builders are using.

We support firewall forward hose kits for everything from the stock configuration to Thunderbolt with FM150, Dual PMAG, backup alt and upright oil filter adapter.

Take care,
Steve

Sorry Steve,

I forgot to add that I was planning to go with you guys for FWF kit.

BTW, love your brake lines on the Berringer setup. Perfect fit!


Question for you while here... What if I went with a dual SDS CPI-2 setup? Would you be able to work with that?

Let me know if you need me to call.

Thanks,
Jim
 
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I have been waiting for my Thunderbolt since early December, I'll consider myself lucky to get it by June. With the Superior buy back I suspect new orders will drift out to 9-12 months, so I would not delay.
 
Just ordered at Sun & Fun

I needed to be at Sun & Fun to run the booth for Rapidset Hangars and I took the opportunity to run around to all the vendors and ask questions like what are being asked here.
On our RV14 we have all the kits from Vans and are chugging along building as per Van's plans. Since I know nothing about about aircraft engineering I am going exactly as Van's lays it out. First I went to the Van's booth and found out the special (which was not as good as in the past) and I got Van's paperwork for ordering the prop and motor from Sterling. I took the paperwork around to the vendors and ask for there help in filling it out so I got the right motor and prop. I visited with Jeff in the Lycoming booth, he is the Thunderbolt guy and just asked a bunch of questions, mostly about mags. He said the best way to order is get only 1 e/p mag installed and make sure I have the right studs and gear for the other e/p mag installed from them. He said copy him on the order and he will see it through (which I did) then went to Hartzell. I told the guy there I live at 7,000 ft ASL and I told him that I was building a 14 and pointed to one of the props on display and said get this one. I asked about a prop governor and he said most any will work because it is an oil pump. I checked and it looks like one is in the FF kit from vans - Jeff at Lycoming said the new Thunderbolt did not come with the governor. Then I went to the e/p mag guy and he explained how the mag is timed and how the advanced works. I went to school to build race motors and and the timing degrees he was giving me seems odd - but I said I will just take your word for it. Then I was working through the back up battery, alternator, switching the power bus, powering the mags, etc... Then someone at the show told me the e/p mag guy's mags has a small generator in each mag (I think that is why emag is the brand - with power? But don't know) And I went back to the e/p mag guy and he showed me that after a certain rpm the small internal generator makes enough power to keep the mag running like a typical mag. That seemed to recalculate my thoughts on back up. I think we will go with a back up battery which seems prudent, and if set up correctly might help if you get stuck not being able to start it away from home.
After a bunch of running sent in the paperwork with a deposit to Van's and am waiting. Jeff at Lycoming said, ya' we are very backed up and plan to run 3 shifts. But he said timing would be 8+ months but they are trying to get it to less then 6 - he said that might apply to my order. But the bottom line is I'm in line, satisfied with what I learned and think it is best way to go - stick with what Van says.
Only thing left is avionics and I think we are going with AFS panel with red hub with internal fuses and Dynon for the rest. But as everyone says avionics last. I did get the Dynon heated Pieto with AOA from Aircraft Spruce
If I can help answer any questions from the research I have done please PM and ask.
Thanks, Larry
 
Larry, thanks for all that info. I?m going to be in that same boat come Oshkosh. Did the Lycoming guys say if that delay applied to both the Thunderbolt and regular version, or just the Thunderbolt. From talking to Vans, I was under the impression the big delays were for the Thunderbolt version.
Thanks,
Kerry
 
Larry, thanks for all that info. I?m going to be in that same boat come Oshkosh. Did the Lycoming guys say if that delay applied to both the Thunderbolt and regular version, or just the Thunderbolt. From talking to Vans, I was under the impression the big delays were for the Thunderbolt version.
Thanks,
Kerry

He implied the delay was Lycoming in general. I assume mostly because of the Superior motor troubles.
He basically said (my interpretation) is ya, we are really, really backed up but for a sale pitch hopeful we will catch up. I understand, and figure just being in line is OK. If you push too hard will it compromise quality?
We also got caught in the big time delay for the QB kits from vans, it took much longer then stated - but again is pushing too hard going to compromise quality?
Just a thought, Larry
 
Sorry Steve,

I forgot to add that I was planning to go with you guys for FWF kit.

BTW, love your brake lines on the Berringer setup. Perfect fit!


Question for you while here... What if I went with a dual SDS CPI-2 setup? Would you be able to work with that?

Let me know if you need me to call.

Thanks,
Jim

Jim,

In short....yes. Whatever customers want to install, we will be happy to work with you to create a customized setup. We are currently actively prototyping RV14 components for SDS and EFII.

Send me an email at [email protected] with more details on what you are planning, as well as your time frame.

Glad you like your Beringer hoses.

Steve
 
To whet your appetite, here are some pics of a friend's recently-delivered Lycoming Thunderbolt YIO-360-M1B for his unfinished RV-7.

i-PwxBHWj-L.jpg


i-xDk3SLd-L.jpg


i-JmKRXK4-L.jpg

Beautiful! I can't wait
Larry
 
I was thinking that I might order my engine at OSH this year because of the long delivery delays, but I may wait until SnF '20. However, I'm wondering about a couple of options. First, I'm guessing that I would want a 144-tooth ring gear. I'm planning on a B&C 60-amp main alt unless someone knows of an 80-amp. :rolleyes: Planning on too many electron eaters! B&C vacuum pad standby alternator (the 20 to 40-amp model; understand that requires the 90-deg filter adapter). Did I understand that the governor is now considered a separate accessory by Lycoming, not part of the engine order? This will be a Thunderbolt 390.
 
I was thinking that I might order my engine at OSH this year because of the long delivery delays, but I may wait until SnF '20. However, I'm wondering about a couple of options. First, I'm guessing that I would want a 144-tooth ring gear. I'm planning on a B&C 60-amp main alt unless someone knows of an 80-amp. :rolleyes: Planning on too many electron eaters! B&C vacuum pad standby alternator (the 20 to 40-amp model; understand that requires the 90-deg filter adapter). Did I understand that the governor is now considered a separate accessory by Lycoming, not part of the engine order? This will be a Thunderbolt 390.

Two things:

1) Unless you're a VERY fast builder, there's probably no need to order an engine now. I'd imagine that by SNF 2020, lead times will be back to normal levels. You really don't want that new engine sitting in your shop for months or years.

2) Why do you have a preference for the number of teeth on the ring gear? I'm just curious - it never occurred to me that there is/was a reason to pick one vs the other.
 
1) Unless you're a VERY fast builder, there's probably no need to order an engine now. I'd imagine that by SNF 2020, lead times will be back to normal levels. You really don't want that new engine sitting in your shop for months or years.

I'll be retiring in July and this is a QB, fuse and wings. HOPING that my work accelerates significantly in the last half of this year.

2) Why do you have a preference for the number of teeth on the ring gear? I'm just curious - it never occurred to me that there is/was a reason to pick one vs the other.

Hadn't even given it a thought myself but it was an option when I was looking at Lycoming's engine build pages (doesn't seem to be there now).


However, If I had the engine out I would consider the oil filter adapter just so I don?t have to drain the filter. The prop controller does not come with the engine.

You may want to order a slightly longer oil filter hose if you go with the standby alternator. Otherwise it will rub across the top of the alternator. Steve or Tom at Aircraft Specilty / AS Flightlines can hook you up with the correct hose.

Yeah, one reason why I'd probably go ahead and order the filter adapter even if not needed. Thanks for the hose tip!
 
but I have not had any problems with starting the IO-390 cold or hot once I started priming for just 1 second, it starts right up every time. My first 50 hours I was over priming.

A friend had the same problem and found the same solution!
So don't flood the engine while priming!
 
I have the B&C alternator mounted on the accessory pad and it does not require the oil filter adapter. In fact, the oil filter is very accessible and easy to remove if you drain it first. However, If I had the engine out I would consider the oil filter adapter just so I don’t have to drain the filter. The prop controller does not come with the engine.

You may want to order a slightly longer oil filter hose if you go with the standby alternator. Otherwise it will rub across the top of the alternator. Steve or Tom at Aircraft Specilty / AS Flightlines can hook you up with the correct hose.

Tom was one of our beta testers for different FWF component hose configurations. As he mentioned, the addition of the backup B and C alternator on the 14a causes a slight oil hose length modification. The upright oil filter adapter also requires a change to oil hose lengths on the 14A and a change to the stock Van's breather setup.

We have more details on the configuration options on the RV14 product page on our website.
 
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