VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 10-02-2015, 05:54 AM
sprucemoose's Avatar
sprucemoose sprucemoose is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MKE
Posts: 1,494
Default

In 2013 a local RV-6 tip-up guy made an off airport landing near here, and ended up on his back. The roll bar held up just fine and protected the pilot until help arrived and lifted the plane up to assist him with egress (he was about 80 and not terribly nimble.) Last I heard the airplane was bought by a well-known RV build outfit our west and was repaired.

As a tip-up builder/ flyer myself, I've studied this and thought long and hard about it. Bottom line is that I'm perfectly comfortable with the security provided by the tip-up roll bar. I think those who believe that the slider to be superior is this regard are deluding themselves, particularly when they think they can simply slide the canopy back in a rollover situation.

I also carry a small backpacking axe for emergency egress, and if push comes to shove, aluminum (tip-up) chops easier than 4130 (slider.)
__________________
Jeff Point
RV-6, RLU-1 built & flying
Tech Counselor, Flight Advisor & President, EAA Chapter 18
Milwaukee
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-02-2015, 08:22 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis View Post
Most all of the reports I have ever read ALL RVs (tailwheel or nose wheel) that land off airport will end up on their back.
I agree.

The main wheels on a tail dragger are even further back than the nose wheel on a trigear (closer to the C.G.)

If the ground is soft or there is vegetation tall enough to grab the gear, going over is highly likely.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:31 AM
Snowflake's Avatar
Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The main wheels on a tail dragger are even further back than the nose wheel on a trigear (closer to the C.G.)
While this is true, the main gear on a TD also deflects up and back when compressed, offering compliance and energy absorbtion while not tending to "dig in". The nosegear on a NW deflects back and down, digging further into the ground.

So as soon as a nosewheel comes down on rough/soft/uneven ground, it's going to be digging in, while on a tailwheel aircraft you will likely bleed off some speed decelerating before anything really grabs.

Of course, everything will depend on the stackup of a lot of factors in any off-airport situation... The third wheel placement will only be one of those factors, and I believe the TW has a slight edge in that regard.
__________________
Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-02-2015, 09:51 AM
rdoerr01 rdoerr01 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 115
Default You can read about N369RV.

I built N369RV which was a RV-9A Tip-Up and I had an off-field landing the resulted in a flip over. The roll bar sure helped, but it is a little lower than the high point on the canopy which did help when you impact the ground. I was knocked out for a few minutes and had to be put in a brace until the x-rays came back. I had a very stiff neck for 2 months and it still bothers me on occasion today, which is 11 years later. The canopy did break but it was only around the top where your head is. I could see that at the time but pounding on the sides of the glass would not break it. It wasn't until I realized it was broke over my head which is now in the ground that I started breaking it piece my piece up to the side rail until I had a big enough area to crawl out of. All this time the most horrible part is the smell of gas. Even with the fuel valve off, I had mostly full tanks and it will just gravity flow out of the vent lines in the RV-7/9 fuse the way it's designed.


Thanks

Ray
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:02 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
While this is true, the main gear on a TD also deflects up and back when compressed, offering compliance and energy absorbtion while not tending to "dig in". The nosegear on a NW deflects back and down, digging further into the ground.

So as soon as a nosewheel comes down on rough/soft/uneven ground, it's going to be digging in, while on a tailwheel aircraft you will likely bleed off some speed decelerating before anything really grabs.

Of course, everything will depend on the stackup of a lot of factors in any off-airport situation... The third wheel placement will only be one of those factors, and I believe the TW has a slight edge in that regard.
Analyze it all you want Rob, but accident evidence shows that a tail dragger or trigear RV landing in the conditions that existed for this recent accident, the end result is generally the same....
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-02-2015, 10:41 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 4,625
Default

In my forced landing in a plowed field with my 6A, I luckily flared a bit too late, lacking the prop wash over the elevator and hit level at about 60 knots which immediately sheared the nose gear leg upper bolt and folded the leg flat with the cowling. We simply slid along the ground for 150 feet on the flattened gear leg/ tire/ cowling (turned 90 degrees to lie flat against the cowling bottom). We didn't flip.

The main legs were splayed a good 20 degrees outward from a 7G vertical impact according to the G meter.

There are lots of possibilities here but generally if you land in a plowed field with an A model and try to hold off, the gear will slowly fold back on the first impact and you'll flip. Probably the same for a non- A given the position of the gear. The anti-splat stuff won't make any difference in a rough field landing since it's not strong enough to prevent the leg from folding and could even make things worse here.

Wiping the nose gear off like I did, could be an alternative strategy to not flipping even if it's against your natural reactions. Just food for thought.

The plane had almost no damage other than all 3 gear legs and a hole punched through the firewall and the battery box by the nose gear leg and of course all the wheel fairings and a brake rotor.
__________________

Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 422 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:16 PM
MarkW's Avatar
MarkW MarkW is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edgewater, FL. KSFB
Posts: 1,014
Default

I had always hoped a water ditching would have the best outcome. Also thinking that whatever the landing surface, that I would be able to keep my TW right side up. After watching the midair/off airport landing on the beach in Italy I see how foolish my thinking was. I will avoid a ditching, even take trees before water and will always plan on being inverted when coming to a rest.
That video was an eye opener.
__________________
Mark
RV9 - N14MW - Flying
G3X - ECI Titan I0-320
Catto three blade prop
http://www.mykitlog.com/MarkW
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-02-2015, 01:47 PM
bret's Avatar
bret bret is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,770
Default

My slider will have pull pins on the front rollers, if I'm going swimming, my canopy is going first!
__________________
7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
2018 gladly supported
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-02-2015, 02:01 PM
Steve Melton's Avatar
Steve Melton Steve Melton is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,706
Default

should it be standard practice to jettison the canopy at low speed if you have an off field landing? it seems it does more harm than good in the event of a flip over. probably need a set of safety glasses in place before jettison.
__________________
Steve Melton
Cincinnati, OH
RV-9A, Tip-up, Superior O-320, roller lifters, 160HP, WW 200RV, dual impulse slick mags, oil pressure = 65 psi, EGT = 1300F, flight hours = 600+ for all

Simplicity is the art in design.

see Amanda Melton for www.rvplasticparts.com

Last edited by Steve Melton : 10-02-2015 at 02:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-02-2015, 02:27 PM
AndyRV7's Avatar
AndyRV7 AndyRV7 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hudson County, NJ
Posts: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
I had always hoped a water ditching would have the best outcome. Also thinking that whatever the landing surface, that I would be able to keep my TW right side up. After watching the midair/off airport landing on the beach in Italy I see how foolish my thinking was. I will avoid a ditching, even take trees before water and will always plan on being inverted when coming to a rest.
That video was an eye opener.
My takeaway from that video is to keep the canopy closed and land in deeper water. I think the worst water outcome would be to try to egress from an inverted plane with the canopy taking on water but held in place by the sea floor. I've always figured I would be outside the break anyway to keep from hitting swimmers or surfers. My plane is hangered at the beach so my local area is the shore.

If that pilot had braced for impact by wedging his hand against the roll bar, the canopy would have easily crush his hand or worse.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:11 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.