Van's Air Force
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Gross weight during phase 1
- Thread starter Dorfie
- Start date
az_gila
Well Known Member
For my two seater I'm going to get an Observer Pilot as a ballast weight...
You could do the same and only have to worry about sand bags in the rear seats.
Gil's idea is right on. Read the Advisory Circular regarding the Additional Pilot program. By the time you are ready to do gross weight testing, the airplane should qualify for the Additional Pilot. For the rest of the weight I usually buy something that's needed in the yard by my wife (wood chips, stones, etc.) so it's not wasted.
Vic
Vic
Auburntsts
Well Known Member
I did exactly what Vic did--used something I could use after phase 1. In my case it was 40lbs bags of mulch. I did put down a plastic drop cloth first.
I bought bags of water softener salt pellets in 40 and 60 lb sizes (4 bags each), and saved the receipt. I selected bags in good condition (no holes, no leaky salt crystals, etc). For each one that I used on a given flight, I wrapped and tied it up in a heavy-guage black refuse bag, and secured it with tie-down net hooked to my adel clamp tie-down loops.
The bag combination gave me several weight combos. For example:
40+60=100 lbs, the max weight allowed in the baggage hold.
60 x 3 = 180 (standard passenger weight)
60 x 2 = 120 (roughly Kelli's weight)
When done with the weight testing, I returned the unopened bags of salt to the vendor (Home Depot Aviation Supply). Free test ballast!
The bag combination gave me several weight combos. For example:
40+60=100 lbs, the max weight allowed in the baggage hold.
60 x 3 = 180 (standard passenger weight)
60 x 2 = 120 (roughly Kelli's weight)
When done with the weight testing, I returned the unopened bags of salt to the vendor (Home Depot Aviation Supply). Free test ballast!
All good workable ideas in the above posts!
I have also used cases of oil ( you'll need these later anyway...) and on our most recent build, work-out weights that our partner had handy (never saw him lift - bet he got the set at a garage sale a long time ago....). If you have a friend that is a re-loader, they might have a few bags of lead shot - some of the most compact ballast you'll find.
I have also used cases of oil ( you'll need these later anyway...) and on our most recent build, work-out weights that our partner had handy (never saw him lift - bet he got the set at a garage sale a long time ago....). If you have a friend that is a re-loader, they might have a few bags of lead shot - some of the most compact ballast you'll find.
I've been using Kroger 500ml water bottles, 24/case. They weigh in at 25Lb/case which makes for easy calculation, cheap and useable afterwards. I've been experimenting around most forward CG up till now. Moving on to gross weight and rearward CG is next up. My main concern is securing them. How did you do that part?
Thanks.
Johan
Thanks.
Johan
Gil's idea is right on. Read the Advisory Circular regarding the Additional Pilot program. By the time you are ready to do gross weight testing, the airplane should qualify for the Additional Pilot. For the rest of the weight I usually buy something that's needed in the yard by my wife (wood chips, stones, etc.) so it's not wasted.
Vic
Vic,
What is needed to get second pilot on board? Do the requirements change or get easier later in phase 1? Last I looked it seemed like a lot of paperwork and currencies?
Thanks.
Johan
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
When I did my -6, I put weights in duffel bags and secured them using the belts in the passenger seat. In the baggage compartment, I stuffed 'em under a bunch of packing blankets.
az_gila
Well Known Member
Oberserver Pilot, not Qualified Pilot
Not Vic... but I mentioned it.
After 10 hrs and a few logged items for both flight testing and the airframe, you can add an "Observer Pilot" rather than the "Qualified Pilot" who needs more experience via a points system.
Not too difficult and well explained here by the FAA -
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-116.pdf
The last page gives details, but most of your pilot buddies should qualify.
☐ Have at least a recreational pilot certificate with the appropriate
category and class ratings for the test aircraft, and have received
all necessary endorsements, as required per 14 CFR part 61,
§ 61.31, appropriate to the test aircraft. For light-sport aircraft,
have at least a sport pilot certificate and the appropriate logbook
endorsements for the category and class of the aircraft to be
flown, as required by § 61.317.
☐ Meet the requirements of § 61.56, Flight review.
☐ Meet the requirements of § 61.57(a), Recent flight experience:
Pilot in command, in the same category and class as the test
aircraft.
☐ Have adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft.
☐ Complete this worksheet prior to the initial flight as the OP in
each test aircraft and attach it to the airframe logbook. When
acting as the OP for further flights in the test aircraft, prior to
each flight you must meet the OP criteria, but the checklist need
not be attached to the logbook.
The next to last page details the flight maneuvers and plane stuff you must sign off on first. They should be no big deal. I'm just waiting for some wind in the cooler mornings to do the crosswind landings bit.
I like the bit about the Observer Pilot must be able to see out. No sticking him/her in the baggage compartment...
Not Vic... but I mentioned it.
After 10 hrs and a few logged items for both flight testing and the airframe, you can add an "Observer Pilot" rather than the "Qualified Pilot" who needs more experience via a points system.
Not too difficult and well explained here by the FAA -
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-116.pdf
The last page gives details, but most of your pilot buddies should qualify.
☐ Have at least a recreational pilot certificate with the appropriate
category and class ratings for the test aircraft, and have received
all necessary endorsements, as required per 14 CFR part 61,
§ 61.31, appropriate to the test aircraft. For light-sport aircraft,
have at least a sport pilot certificate and the appropriate logbook
endorsements for the category and class of the aircraft to be
flown, as required by § 61.317.
☐ Meet the requirements of § 61.56, Flight review.
☐ Meet the requirements of § 61.57(a), Recent flight experience:
Pilot in command, in the same category and class as the test
aircraft.
☐ Have adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft.
☐ Complete this worksheet prior to the initial flight as the OP in
each test aircraft and attach it to the airframe logbook. When
acting as the OP for further flights in the test aircraft, prior to
each flight you must meet the OP criteria, but the checklist need
not be attached to the logbook.
The next to last page details the flight maneuvers and plane stuff you must sign off on first. They should be no big deal. I'm just waiting for some wind in the cooler mornings to do the crosswind landings bit.
I like the bit about the Observer Pilot must be able to see out. No sticking him/her in the baggage compartment...
Last edited:
Not Vic... but I mentioned it.
After 10 hrs and a few logged items for both flight testing and the airframe, you can add an "Observer Pilot" rather than the "Qualified Pilot" who needs more experience via a points system.
Not too difficult and well explained here by the FAA -
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-116.pdf
The last page gives details, but most of your pilot buddies should qualify.
☐ Have at least a recreational pilot certificate with the appropriate
category and class ratings for the test aircraft, and have received
all necessary endorsements, as required per 14 CFR part 61,
? 61.31, appropriate to the test aircraft. For light-sport aircraft,
have at least a sport pilot certificate and the appropriate logbook
endorsements for the category and class of the aircraft to be
flown, as required by ? 61.317.
☐ Meet the requirements of ? 61.56, Flight review.
☐ Meet the requirements of ? 61.57(a), Recent flight experience:
Pilot in command, in the same category and class as the test
aircraft.
☐ Have adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft.
☐ Complete this worksheet prior to the initial flight as the OP in
each test aircraft and attach it to the airframe logbook. When
acting as the OP for further flights in the test aircraft, prior to
each flight you must meet the OP criteria, but the checklist need
not be attached to the logbook.
The next to last page details the flight maneuvers and plane stuff you must sign off on first. They should be no big deal. I'm just waiting for some wind in the cooler mornings to do the crosswind landings bit.
I like the bit about the Observer Pilot must be able to see out. No sticking him/her in the baggage compartment...
It is not said but understood that the the Operating Limitations for the aircraft have the verbiage that allow for the additional pilot.
According to the latest version of 8130.2 Operating Limitations must say:
Unless operating in accordance with AC 90-116, Additional Pilot Program for Phase I Flight Test, only the minimum crew necessary to fly the aircraft during normal operations may be on board.
az_gila
Well Known Member
Correct, thanks for spotting the error.
However there is an interesting twist if you have multiple test pilots. The 8 hours applies to each pilot, so if you have a partnership and both builders are test flying, or if an "expert" comes in and flies the first flight or two, the primary pilot must have 8 hours in the plane before he/she can take an Observer Pilot.
rightrudder
Well Known Member
I used 60 lb. bags of cement, each wrapped in a Hefty bag just in case of a leak. Not as dense as lead shot, but close!! And cheap too; I think I paid about $4 a bag.
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Another person
I checked with my DAR about this on my first 7. I had about 5 hours left of Phase 1. He said put someone in the seat. Also, suggested it is a good way to log stall speeds and other data that I might want.
His logic was that it is easier to secure a person than many elements of ballast. Worked great. Got to feel the plane at max gross and we logged all of the essential stall speeds.
I checked with my DAR about this on my first 7. I had about 5 hours left of Phase 1. He said put someone in the seat. Also, suggested it is a good way to log stall speeds and other data that I might want.
His logic was that it is easier to secure a person than many elements of ballast. Worked great. Got to feel the plane at max gross and we logged all of the essential stall speeds.
