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Colored Smoke

Kilo Charlie

Kilo Charlie

Active Member
I am searching for information on how to/what to use for colored smoke. I have seen Airshows where planes even gliders have some form of smoke generators on the wing tips. I am assuming they are pyrotechnics/fancy smoke bombs. I am aware that I can't add a dye to my smoke tank to add color so I am looking for options.

Could someone let me know what kind of smoke pyro you/others are using? I have seen planes at Oshkosh with what appears to be a metal cylinder near the wing tips that could hold what I am assuming is a large smoke bomb/pyro something....

The reason is I was approached by a neighbor at my Airpark and she wanted me to fly overhead at a baby gender revealing party and trail the appropriate colored smoke. I realize this could be a bit of work but I would like to have this option for future flights as well.

I have spent a bit of time searching the web and VAF and haven't found the golden egg yet, any information or pointing me in the right directing would be greatly appreciated.

Aloha,
KC
 
In all the RV formations that I have taken part with colored smoke, we have used smoke canisters that burn the color one needs. Yes the WHITE smoke is the typical injected smoke oil.

The canisters are hard to get and have a long lead time.
 
I work with "Bandit Flight Team" and purchase the colored smoke canisters for our Aircraft: a mix of RV's and YAK's. All have oil injection into the exhaust for the white smoke. Several have steel wingtip-attached brackets for the pyrotechnics colored smoke canisters.

I have found two different vendors for the colored smoke canisters:
Vendor "A" only provides the white color with an electric squib ignighter. Because they only provide white and our Aircraft can generate white with the oil injection, we do not use them. They are a large company and easy to deal with. They just have not shown any interest in offering different colors.

Vendor "B" is a pain in the a$$. They can provide any color, in any size canister. They constantly miss their ship dates by several months and require constant handholding to get what they promised. We order smoke canisters by the hundreds. I think it is a one-man shop.

We work with the local county Fire Marshall to be sure he is in the loop and happy as well as the airport manager and airport authority.

Oh, I have not found any additive, either powder or fluid, that can be added to the smoke oil to get different colors.

And yes, the pyro smoke will stain the paint. That is why the mounting brackets are aft and outboard on the wingtip. The smoke just misses the HS and elevators. The cartridges are too hot to hold in your hand when burning.

I will look into Novasolve.
 
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Oh, I have not found any additive, either powder or fluid, that can be added to the smoke oil to get different colors.
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I don't think anybody has...it's the Holy Grail of RV smokers :)
 
RV7A Flyer said:
Appears to be primarily for jet engines...wonder if it'd work with our reciprocating engine exhaust?

And, more importantly, would it stain the paint on the belly?
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Novasolve 780 claims to work with piston.

So the question is why does coloured smoke work with jets and not piston? Exhaust not hot enough?
 
rjt194 said:
Novasolve 780 claims to work with piston.

So the question is why does coloured smoke work with jets and not piston? Exhaust not hot enough?
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Somebody should get ahold of some of this stuff and try some ground experiments. I can't see how it would work in jet exhaust and not in piston exhaust, unless as you say it's a temperature thing.

IF, and it's a big if, it works in our style of smoke systems, it'd be the first time I think most of us have seen an additive that would. And I'd still be worried about staining...

But I say it's worth taking a look-see :)

ETA: Submitted some questions to the Nova company to see what they say about it working in our smoke systems...would be great if it does, but we'll have to wait and see what they say. :)
 
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I work for a large chemical company, that makes the dyes that would color the smoke. The underlying mechanism of the colored smoke is well understood (sublimation of dyes). Unfortunately, the exhaust gas temperature of a piston engine is not high enough - you will need a jet engine. Alternatively, pyro system would provide high enough temperatures.
I have tried to find a solution to work with lower temperatures, but no success.
The down side side of the dyes: the will stain the paint on the airplane...
 
thilokind said:
I work for a large chemical company, that makes the dyes that would color the smoke. The underlying mechanism of the colored smoke is well understood (sublimation of dyes). Unfortunately, the exhaust gas temperature of a piston engine is not high enough - you will need a jet engine. Alternatively, pyro system would provide high enough temperatures.
I have tried to find a solution to work with lower temperatures, but no success.
The down side side of the dyes: the will stain the paint on the airplane...
Click to expand...

The Novasolve page says the temps need to be > about 300C. Wonder what the temp of the exhaust is somewhere down the pipe on a Lycoming, say, 1' from the end or so?

Seems like it'd be above 300C...
 
There's a lot more hot gas that comes out of a jet.

But I think the most reasonable explanation is that the injector shoots the smoke oil into the jet exhaust that is aft of the airframe. So no risk of staining or corrosion.

I remember a few years back when the Patriots had a jet that blew the blue dye line and the entire fuselage/engine bay interior was bright blue.
 
Hi - reopening this thread - I am with a Danish RV formation team - and we are being considered to to fly-by's at two major events next year in Copenhagen - European Soccer Championship and the start of Tour de France (go figure why they start in Copenhagen - but they do) - and we are asked to produce white and red smoke (Danish Flag). Just wondering if anyone has seen this successfully done from a piston aircraft (not pyrotechnics) but dye oil - from what I can read at NovaSmoke they recommend to inject the oil near the exhaust end (so the dye is not burned off) - but I have not seen any evidence if this would work. Any input is more than welcome.

All the best and stay safe

Per Andersen
Copenhagen, Denmark
RV6A (OY-IPA)
 
There was a story in Flying, AOPA Pilot, or Smithsonian Air & Space (I frankly don't recall which) in the past year about someone who has a business building self-contained smoke generators. I think they fit them into an aerodynamic package that fits an AIM-9 Sidewinder mount. That would not need power or heat from either a jet or piston engine.

I'm sure a bit of Google searching could reveal who they are. Sorry I'm not more help.

But please upload photos if you get one - I'd love to see a kit plane sporting a pair of Sidewinders on the wingtips!
 
AlpineYoda said:
There was a story in Flying, AOPA Pilot, or Smithsonian Air & Space (I frankly don't recall which) in the past year about someone who has a business building self-contained smoke generators. I think they fit them into an aerodynamic package that fits an AIM-9 Sidewinder mount. That would not need power or heat from either a jet or piston engine.
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The pods are called Smokewinders, and they're make by Sanders Smoke Systems: http://sanderssmoke.com/
 
It CAN be done, I?m just not sure how. Some years ago a customer approached me about making red smoke for airshows in his Pitts. I didn?t know how to do it but was able to refer him to a movie special effects specialist who pointed my guy to ?something? that did the job. Customer never would tell me what he used, and I never even learned if it was an additive to his smoke oil or if it was something that went into his tank straight. He said it was toxic and he didn?t want to use it any more. I think he used it for one or two air shows and stopped. He got brilliant, crimson red smoke. Later, I put new fabric on the airplane and found that whatever that red stuff was, it had penetrated the paint, dope, fabric and glue right to the steel tubing.
 
Hmm, good question. We were in California alright (KSZP) but I got the impression he was actually worried about poisoning someone, or himself. This would have been along about nineteen eighty-something but California toxic as opposed to actually toxic was already a Thing.
 
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It can be done

A local airshow performer did this for a number of years.
Ron Saglambini (spelling?)
An oral surgeon, he billed himself as Dr Smoke.
He had several colors, controlled them from the cockpit. He was pretty tight lipped about what he used, maybe he will be more open now that he has retired from the circuit. Will see if I can get hold of him.

https://youtu.be/9X7ZOgUxwgI
 
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rv8ch said:
The only challenge I see here is that once you light it, it's going to burn until finished.
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And that's why people keep asking for some sort of smoke *oil* or additive for their existing smoke systems which inject the oil into the exhaust, rather than pyrotechnics (which people keep responding with). Plus, pyro devices need additional wiring and some sort of ignitor. That, and I think a lot of people might be somewhat uncomfortable with things attached to the aircraft that are (in a way) on fire :).
 
I think the Smokewinders can turn on and off. Don't know if it's wireless or a wired connection - but I would guess wireless since no one wants to run another wire through an F-16's wing just for a pyro.

But, given that's what the military demonstration teams use, it's probably the single most expensive option on the market....
 
N733JJ said:
A local airshow performer did this for a number of years.
Ron Saglambini (spelling?)
An oral surgeon, he billed himself as Dr Smoke.
He had several colors, controlled them from the cockpit. He was pretty tight lipped about what he used, maybe he will be more open now that he has retired from the circuit. Will see if I can get hold of him.

https://youtu.be/9X7ZOgUxwgI
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I got this response from Ron:

Scott,
I added a dye to the smoke oil. Bought it from United Color in Newton, PA. Phone number is 800 852 5942. Two to three parts oil to one part dye. Red dye is Unison Liquid Red BHF- HD It's messy. Cleans off with a gas, but don?t leave it on for a week, It will ultimately stain the paint.

Don't use it on a fabric covered aircraft unless it's painted with polyurethane. If you get smoke oil in your cockpit, expect everything to be tinted red. You?ve got to make sure that you have a positive pressure environment in the cockpit! If you put your smoke system on and any smoke is getting into the cockpit, the colored smoke will too!
Regards,
Ron Sag
 
has anyone tried the colored smoke since this thread?

I was wondering if anyone has tried this dye in their smoke system and did it work? Any issue with where nozzles are mounted on exhaust? any other ideas for colored smoke?
 
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