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  #11  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:20 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
FAR 91.205
Thanks, Sam. Since the OP is new to EAB he should note that FAR 91.205 is much less restrictive than the requirements for a typical, say, 172, airplane. There are significant additional requirements for type-certified aircraft. For example, two independent sources of power. As an EAB owner, it is up to you to decide what is safe enough.
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2020, 08:20 AM
Christheaviator Christheaviator is offline
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lafayette, CO
Posts: 2
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I too just got a -4 (tall gear) and have found wheel landings SO much better in the RV.

as to your IFR question. This is a classic call to the FSDO. My aircraft was listed with only Day VFR even though its night equipped. One phone call, they were very helpful. The same answer applies to IFR (I asked because I'm planning on equipping mine for IFR). The short answer is, if it's equipped, even after the build just have it reinspected and have the limitations reflect the new capabilities. Don't be afraid to call the FSDO, they're super helpful and honestly easy to work with. Just my .2
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2020, 09:09 PM
GHARBEN GHARBEN is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Gainesville, Georgia
Posts: 10
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I certainly appreciate everyone. I will let you know what my thought on cross wind landing after a few months. N12HR may not have stayic ports. I must give her a closer look.
PS
Smokey, I will certainly say hello to Jentzen! He was a great privilege to fly.
Thanks
G Harben
N12HR
RV 4
O 320/WOOD-SENSENICH PROP
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:09 PM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
Posts: 854
Default I disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd Birchler View Post
I'm sorry but after many thousands of TW hours I think it is a bit of a myth that you need to wheel land in a cross wind. Yes of course I can do it, but why?

If you land with a direct cross wind, I will agree: you can stick it on the runway with a lot more cross wind component than landing with a three point. The problem is you still need to get the tail down on the runway and you cannot put the tailwheel down in most taildraggers until you are at or nearly at stall speed. This is because most taildraggers are built so that the deck angle setting on the ground is at (or exceeds) the wings stall angle of attack.

If, after pinning the mains on during an extreme crosswind, I am on the ground with the mains rolling with the tail still up, as I slow the rudder becomes less effective at keeping me straight by shoving the tail into the crosswind. The slower I get the less my ability to keep the slowing plane aligned with the runway. Should it occur that I run out of rudder authority prior to being below stall speed I will depart the runway into the wind.

If I were to attempt to land on the same runway three point I would most likely go some where else if I could not get enough rudder at stall speed to keep the plane in alignment with the runway. The difference is with the 3 point I will know this with no ground contact, but with the wheel landing I find it out with the mains ( perhaps only one up wind wheel) firmly on the ground.

Whether I wheel land or 3 point the tail has to come down at or near stall speed, with the 3 point this all occurs at the same time and you do not have those moments in between as the rudder looses effectiveness while the tail wheel is not yest in contact firmly on the runway.
I have thoudands of hours of tailwheel time and I learned from old CAP instructors. Ive flown many tw types including the Pitts S1S with narrow bungee gear and small verticle fin and small rudder. J3,J4, pacers, tailorcrafts, champs, chiefs, swifts, funk, c120-c185. Bowers flybaby, baby ace, and several others

The Rvs have very good flying qualities. The ailerons are relatively effective even in a stall. The elevator also. That allows in to be 3 pointed in a cross wind up to a point. What is the largest control surface on an RV? The rudder? The rudder will remain effective long after the ailerons have given up. In gusty cross winds I want my ailerons and elevators to be effective. I will stick will the wheel landing. Ive even landed my -4 with the tailwheel free castering in a pretty stiff xwind and it does fine.
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Pitts S1S "Mexican Red" sold and missed
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:34 AM
Whitman Whitman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allentown PA
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHARBEN View Post
Just started flying N12HR. An RV 4 with 800 hours.
Do most people 3 point od wheel land in crosswinds. Also is it legal to file IFR in a properly equipped RV 4?
Thanks
Donít be like me and wait too long to get comfortable w wheel landings. They are a thing of beauty in the -4! I agree with Smokey, paved rwy wheel, soft field three point.

For me, full flap wheel landing works best on the -4. Give it a shot. Most common error when new is being too fast on approach. Flight test your stall speed in full flap and clean configuration. For me at 42kts full flap stall x 1.3 = 55 kts. I fly approach at 60, over the numbers at 55 solo. Your mileage may vary, flight test flight test flight test!
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"Poise under pressure is the single most valuable thing you can have as a pilot. Make mistakes, take corrective action as quickly and calmly as possible and press on."
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:05 PM
GHARBEN GHARBEN is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Gainesville, Georgia
Posts: 10
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I have several hundred hours in various tail wheel planes. I normally prefer wheel landings in cross winds. With that said, I have very little time in a low wing taildragger. Especially such a slick airframe. I started approach’s at 80. With no flaps that is a disaster! To make matters worse, N12HR has flaps that don’t stay totally up or totally down very well. Once I realized that the RV 4 was so slick needed drag to stay on the ground, my landings began to improve. It still shocks me how little drag the RV 4 has. My latest landings were at 70 with half flaps. Not bad. When it quits raining, I can’t wait to build some time and polish the landings.
Thanks
G Harben
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:05 AM
Whitman Whitman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allentown PA
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHARBEN View Post
I have several hundred hours in various tail wheel planes. I normally prefer wheel landings in cross winds. With that said, I have very little time in a low wing taildragger. Especially such a slick airframe. I started approachís at 80. With no flaps that is a disaster! To make matters worse, N12HR has flaps that donít stay totally up or totally down very well. Once I realized that the RV 4 was so slick needed drag to stay on the ground, my landings began to improve. It still shocks me how little drag the RV 4 has. My latest landings were at 70 with half flaps. Not bad. When it quits raining, I canít wait to build some time and polish the landings.
Thanks
G Harben
Hopefully MPH?
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"Poise under pressure is the single most valuable thing you can have as a pilot. Make mistakes, take corrective action as quickly and calmly as possible and press on."
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  #18  
Old 03-26-2020, 08:05 PM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: fort myers fl
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Thanks, Sam. Since the OP is new to EAB he should note that FAR 91.205 is much less restrictive than the requirements for a typical, say, 172, airplane. There are significant additional requirements for type-certified aircraft. For example, two independent sources of power. As an EAB owner, it is up to you to decide what is safe enough.
What?
there is no requirement or two independent sources of power required for a standard category aircraft. there are requirements for a secondary source of power for glass, but that is in the certification of the EFIS, not for a type certificated aircraft. any standard or EAB only needs the equipment required by far91.205

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2020, 08:51 PM
Pilot135pd's Avatar
Pilot135pd Pilot135pd is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Ben Wheeler, TX
Posts: 808
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyd Birchler View Post
I'm sorry but after many thousands of TW hours I think it is a bit of a myth that you need to wheel land in a cross wind. Yes of course I can do it, but why?

If you land with a direct cross wind, I will agree: you can stick it on the runway with a lot more cross wind component than landing with a three point. The problem is you still need to get the tail down on the runway and you cannot put the tailwheel down in most taildraggers until you are at or nearly at stall speed. This is because most taildraggers are built so that the deck angle setting on the ground is at (or exceeds) the wings stall angle of attack.

If, after pinning the mains on during an extreme crosswind, I am on the ground with the mains rolling with the tail still up, as I slow the rudder becomes less effective at keeping me straight by shoving the tail into the crosswind. The slower I get the less my ability to keep the slowing plane aligned with the runway. Should it occur that I run out of rudder authority prior to being below stall speed I will depart the runway into the wind.

If I were to attempt to land on the same runway three point I would most likely go some where else if I could not get enough rudder at stall speed to keep the plane in alignment with the runway. The difference is with the 3 point I will know this with no ground contact, but with the wheel landing I find it out with the mains ( perhaps only one up wind wheel) firmly on the ground.

Whether I wheel land or 3 point the tail has to come down at or near stall speed, with the 3 point this all occurs at the same time and you do not have those moments in between as the rudder looses effectiveness while the tail wheel is not yest in contact firmly on the runway.
I was going to write all of this because I prefer 3 points and full flaps almost always on my 2500' grass runway ( but mine is a RV-8 so there might be a slight difference), so I'll just quote you and say " what he said".

Regarding IFR flights, check your Operating Limitations and for navigational instruments I just installed a VAL INS-429 which sell NEW for less than $2000 and gives you en-route, non-precision ( VOR ), and precision ( ILS ) approaches and includes the MB lights, all in one package.
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RV-8 N52VM: Dynon D-180, Autopilot, Titan 0-360A1A, Hartzell C/S, INS-429 IFR, WingX & Stratux for backup & ADS-B IN. Enjoying life while building a FREE campsite for pilots www.facebook.com/VacaMooAirport/

Exempt by 3 out of the 10 ways but I still donated.
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2020, 12:14 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n82rb View Post
What?
there is no requirement or two independent sources of power required for a standard category aircraft. there are requirements for a secondary source of power for glass, but that is in the certification of the EFIS, not for a type certificated aircraft. any standard or EAB only needs the equipment required by far91.205

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
The requirements for a standard category airplane are not just in the FARs; there are a lot of additional requirements hidden in the type certificate process. e.g., until the recent faa exemption for certain efis units, you had to install a TSOíd AI in a type certificated airplane. Thatís not in the farís, itís in the type certificate rules. Likewise, you will not find any normally certificated aircraft with a Type Certificate for ifr that has only one power source for attitude info.
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