Titan 540 Engines can now be pre-ordered!!

The monopoly in the 540cu in. 6 cylinder engine is now over. Titan Aircraft Engines have been shipping non-counter weighted versions to Vertical Aviation for their Hummingbird helicopter for the past 10 months. By the first of the year we will have completed development of our counter weighted crankshaft and forward governor pad. We will only produce about 4 engines per month in 2016, this includes both the IOX-540 and IOX-R540 versions. We have orders for 20 next year ALREADY....

The IOX-540 comes in 260-275hp versions and will weight about 410lbs. Base model comes with AFP200 fuel injection and Lightspeed or EFii dual ignition. A $5000 deposit before the end of 2014 will lock in price and delivery position until all 44 are taken. 2014 price for this configuration is $46,650.00
For complete Dual Efii Fuel and Ignition, add $550.


For those would want more than 300hp and a dry weight of 360lbs, the XIO-R540 with AX50 cylidners, rods, pins, and pistons, SkyDynamics cold induction, dual Efii fuel and ignition, the 2014 price is $57,150.00.

As someone who fairly recently made an IO540 purchase (Barrett) after researching the available options, I applaud your entry into the marketplace.

However, my free and unsolicited market survey input would be that you are going to have to clip a few kilos off your price to make much shift in the market.

The benchmark is the Van's price on factory new and for a lot of people that will be the only option they are interested in. For the rest, in my humble opinion, it is going to take an entry point below the benchmark into Barrett/Aerosport base territory in order to garner significant interest.

If everybody is the same price then a monopoly still exists, and I think it is harder to sell (convince) quality above the factory level than it is to sell a lower entry price.

Good luck regardless.

woxofswa said:

As someone who fairly recently made an IO540 purchase (Barrett) after researching the available options, I applaud your entry into the marketplace.

However, my free and unsolicited market survey input would be that you are going to have to clip a few kilos off your price to make much shift in the market.

The benchmark is the Van's price on factory new and for a lot of people that will be the only option they are interested in. For the rest, in my humble opinion, it is going to take an entry point below the benchmark into Barrett/Aerosport base territory in order to garner significant interest.

If everybody is the same price then a monopoly still exists, and I think it is harder to sell (convince) quality above the factory level than it is to sell a lower entry price.

Good luck regardless.

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I agree completely. I said that when I saw the engine at oshkosh. Some will buy the Titan, but if it were $5k cheaper, a lot of people would.

Backlog

Starting with a five month backlog is a good place to be.

Those early adopters should give a good sense of the premium value.

The engine has very unique and useful features, but it appears to have a high proprietary component. Proprietary can pose challenges such as finding parts, qualified mechanics & field support.

Price of innovation....

Developing and delivering improved efficiency, performance, and quality can never be achieved by simply copying decades old technology and selling it cheaper.

While I never expected everyone to embrace our innovation, the attention and sales thus far seem to indicate there is plenty of pent up demand to keep pushing forward.

And lastly, please keep in mind that it is very difficult to compete with a price point set by a company that is willing to sell engines for such minimum margin because they have just made their profits from selling a kit aircraft.

VAN XIO-540 with mags $46,600
Titan XIO-540 with dual electronic ignition $47,000
(never mind the many improvements we have made to our parts over the years we learned from repairing Lycoming engines)

Kevin:

Have you been able to get a counterweighted crankshaft yet?

Jesse said:

I agree completely. I said that when I saw the engine at oshkosh. Some will buy the Titan, but if it were $5k cheaper, a lot of people would.

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An order backlog means demand is outstripping supply, which means they have no incentive whatsoever to lower their price.

If their business model was to sell an unlimited number of engines to everybody, you'd perhaps have a point. But if it's to sell 44 engines to 44 customers and they already have 20 in the queue, it sounds like they're on a winner.

- mark

newt said:

An order backlog means demand is outstripping supply, which means they have no incentive whatsoever to lower their price.

If their business model was to sell an unlimited number of engines to everybody, you'd perhaps have a point. But if it's to sell 44 engines to 44 customers and they already have 20 in the queue, it sounds like they're on a winner.

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An order backlog on a new product means they either have a great demand, or are taking orders before they can produce. For example, the 6-cyl P-Mag probably has several hundred in the queue, and have for several years. Does that mean they have a fantastic 6-cyl product, or they haven't started producing yet? A backlog either means there is a high demand or a low supply, but either way it doesn't mean there's no incentive to lower their price. They obviously think they have a superior product, and they may have, but it is new and there could very possibly be problems with it, especially early on.

I am confident that their business model is not to sell 44 engines to 44 customers. I would bet that they would love to sell 1,000 engines to 1,000 customers, or 10,000 engines to 10,000 customers. My point was that they are more likely to get closer to those bigger numbers with a more competitive price.

I'm not in the market for a new engine, but admittedly it might be helpful if people knew why the Titan 540 engine was better than the Lycoming engine. If the price is the same or higher, then a good side by side comparison is helpful. I know you can provide electronic ignition, but that can be done at Lycoming. So what makes your parts, technology or process better?

I think venders need to understand their market as well as they do their products. Van's figured that out and that's why Van's is successful.

There is a subset of the market where price is secondary, but not enough to keep the community alive. Some of the cheapest people I know are pilots with a ton of money. They want quality, but they also demand a "deal". Wishing they were different doesn't change them.

In order for general aviation to survive, all producers are going to have to focus on engineering cost containment as much as product development/improvement. General aviation needs at least the upper middle class back or we are headed for extinction.

Not an indictment of anyone in particular, just musings from someone who has actually taken the crowbar to the wallet and purchased an engine.

One extremely satisfied customer at a time, IS part of a valid business model.

Bevan

woxofswa said:

In order for general aviation to survive, all producers are going to have to focus on engineering cost containment as much as product development/improvement. General aviation needs at least the upper middle class back or we are headed for extinction.

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Not necessarily. There is a requirement for the R&D folks that inovate, even if they never sell anything into the market (think auto/air race teams). They are a critical element along the way to new and better products. Titan may well be a hybrid that inovates AND sells product. Price may be what it is, at this point in time.

Further, it is not the primary responsibility of any vendor to try and "save" the market, any more than it's the lifeguard's first responsibility to save the swimmer. Is it not the lifeguard's duty to protect him/herself first (during the course of operations)? Otherwise, the victim may be absolutely doomed.

Bevan

Just my opinion

I started out building a sonex but soon decided I want to build a rv-7 because of the quality and options available. Maybe that's the way Titan looks at things they are offering a product to be proud of and put a lot of work developing into it. Like me yes price is a consideration but when quality and service as Titan provides to its customers I know I am willing to pay alittle for something I can be proud of and rely on . Good luck Titan I know it will be a success.

Counter weighted crank shaft

rgbewley said:

Kevin:

Have you been able to get a counterweighted crankshaft yet?

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Yes, the crankshaft is the same as non-counterweighted we have been building and selling all year. The last task to allow us to start shipping counter-weighted engines is receipt of cases with the ability to machine the forward governor gears into front.

This is simply a supply issue and we expect the first such cases to start arriving in January.

Like I mentioned, we have been building new 540's for Vertical Aviation Hummingbird helicopters all year and they seem to be very happy with both the performance and smoothness of these engines.

Titan 540 vs Lycoming

I am working on detailed list of the many improvements on both ECi replacement parts and R Series parts from ACE-Performance for Titan 540 engines. By the time we are ready to start shipping these new engines, I will have an extensive list...

Relentless, I'm excited about seeing that comparable list. I can see visually improvements on your product and excited about new options on the market. But I do need to understand what those non-visual improvements are!

I will say your set up at Oshkosh was great and had some very helpful, knowledgeable folks there. I'm seriously considering the 540 from you in a few years!