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A/C in a -7(a)

A

AdamF

I'm New Here
Hello!

So without getting mixed up in the "Air conditioning is not needed in a plane" debate, has anyone installed an A/C system in a -7? Or any other Van's 2 seater?

Who's unit did they use, cost, etc.


Thanks,
Adam
 
a/c

my first question would be weight/arm

you show me a unit around 20 lbs or so that doesn't screw up my cg, and then i'm up to asking 'how much?'

used to have a 1979 turbo-arrow iv with a/c useful load was about 930 lbs. coupla planes later i had a 1977 turbo-arrow iii without a/c. -- useful load was 1070 (same max gross). i'd rather have the load. (yes, the a/c was not the only difference....but it was the biggest single adder.)
 
Thanks for the reply, but not really what I was looking to find out. Weight is a consideration, but not the main concern for me right now.

I really just want to see who has done it before and get some information from them.

Have a great day,
Adam
 
AdamF said:
Thanks for the reply, but not really what I was looking to find out. Weight is a consideration, but not the main concern for me right now.

I really just want to see who has done it before and get some information from them.
Click to expand...
You might be hard pressed to find someone who can relate that they have done this. Perhaps someone has and they will reply but my guess is that John's reply will be the norm. The real disadvantage to adding A/C is the weight it will add and the resulting decrease in usable load carrying capacity. Most people are going to be reluctant to do so because of these issues. I myself live in a climate where those hot summer days would be much more tolerable in an air conditioned cockpit too and anyone who knows me personally can attest to how hot natured I am. However, the reality is that for this design it isn't very practical. I did chose the slider over the tip up because of the heat. I felt the ability to taxi with the canopy open in the slider configuration would help with some of the heat issues while on the ground.

Good luck with your search for those who have installed A/C. I will be an interested observer of this thread to see what the replies will be.
 
There was a vendor at Sun-n-Fun that was selling some type of air cooling system that was based on a cooler filled with Ice and a fan. I only walked past the vendor. I did not stop to see exacly what they were offering. I could not find them on the sun-n-fun.org site. Mybe some one else knows the company that does this. I guess this is a suitcase/cooler a/c.
 
Zee systems

AdamF said:
Hello!

So without getting mixed up in the "Air conditioning is not needed in a plane" debate, has anyone installed an A/C system in a -7? Or any other Van's 2 seater?

Who's unit did they use, cost, etc.




Thanks,
Adam
Click to expand...

Hi Adam,
I had a Zee systems A/C in my Air Tractor and loved it. Then again, we stay just a couple feet off the ground doing ag work where it's always hot in the summer.

I spoke with them just a little while ago and he told me that their small system weighs around 75 lbs but the worst part is that their electric motor that drives the compressor needs a continous 70 amps :eek:

I'd think that a unit out of a Toyota or similar with a high efficiency compressor could be belt driven and with a smaller overall size/BTU output, maybe half that weight.

Here's the link to Zee: http://www.zeeco-zeesys.com/images/ag-aircraft.jpg

Regards,
 
JonathanCook said:
There was a vendor at Sun-n-Fun that was selling some type of air cooling system that was based on a cooler filled with Ice and a fan. I only walked past the vendor. I did not stop to see exacly what they were offering. I could not find them on the sun-n-fun.org site. Mybe some one else knows the company that does this. I guess this is a suitcase/cooler a/c.
Click to expand...
Doug Reeves (yes, that Doug Reeves) test flew one manufacturer's cooler system and posted results on a thread here last summer. I have been searching for that thread but cannot find it. Maybe Doug will chime in with his thoughts on his experience with it.

Meanwhile, I did find this on the internet:
http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408

They are basically selling a lid with a fan in it that you can place on your cooler.
 
make that yourself

JonathanCook said:
There was a vendor at Sun-n-Fun that was selling some type of air cooling system that was based on a cooler filled with Ice and a fan. I only walked past the vendor. I did not stop to see exacly what they were offering. I could not find them on the sun-n-fun.org site. Mybe some one else knows the company that does this. I guess this is a suitcase/cooler a/c.
Click to expand...


Yup I saw those units again this year. It's a real simple set up that they are MIGHTY proud of. You could build one yourself for WAY less than what they are selling them for.

They have a little pump that circulates the water thru what looks like a small heater core or maybe even an oil cooler with a large CPU type fan blowing air thru it.

The pump looked like a small bilge pump you could get a a boating store or even wal-mart.

The only thing they had that looked special made was the nice plastic fan plenum on top of the cooler.

Flying around with one in the baggage area is kinda of crazy. It hink something like that would be ideal for use in a camping tent.
 
Another portable unit is made by Arcticair (also sold thru Sporty's). Their web site is:
www.arcticaircooler.com
It would be interesting to see how this unit compares to the Koolerair unit referenced earlier. While Arcticair is much more expensive, the question with both of these units is how efficient and for how long. Perhaps one of our southern RV test pilot/engineers could talk both vendors into some loaners for a comparison, with results to be published on the forum.
Terry
 
Oops! Sorry, just saw this reply.

http://www.vansairforce.net/review/CoolingVest/index.htm

That dang thing is so cold you can hardly stand it.

Standard equipment on a 100F late summer Texas flight !!!!

b,
That Doug Reeves


RVbySDI said:
Doug Reeves (yes, that Doug Reeves) test flew one manufacturer's cooler system and posted results on a thread here last summer. I have been searching for that thread but cannot find it. Maybe Doug will chime in with his thoughts on his experience with it.

Meanwhile, I did find this on the internet:
http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408

They are basically selling a lid with a fan in it that you can place on your cooler.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Koolerair

terrykohler said:
It would be interesting to see how this unit compares to the Koolerair unit referenced earlier. While Arcticair is much more expensive, the question with both of these units is how efficient and for how long. Perhaps one of our southern RV test pilot/engineers could talk both vendors into some loaners for a comparison, with results to be published on the forum.
Terry
Click to expand...

I actually bought the Koolerair unit and tried it in the plane and taxied around with it and flew the pattern. (North Florida in the 90s last summer). I didn't eactly follow the instructions. I used blue plastic freeze bags instead of ice. It didn't impress me. Soon after the first try we moved and I just unpacked it in my new hanger last week. I plan to try it with ice the next time. So I don't have a totally fair review,...yet. My plane is currently apart while I am completing my second annual inspection. If anyone is interested, I will provide an update when I get back in the air. jack
 
xavierm said:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/gear/60ad/

Freeze a .5l bottle of water, throw it in here, turn it on. Uses D batteries.
When the water melts, drink it.
Click to expand...

Almost perfect!

Also, a cooler in the bag compartment filled with those little blue ice things used for keeping camp stuff cool could be cycled through the fan device. You wouldn't have to drink so much water and could fly longer between potty stops. :)

Less seriously, I saw a bill board for a RV-10 A/C system at SNF. Maybe it would work.
 
Xavier:
Using a heat exchanger in an enclosed environment (aircraft cockpit) should result in a net increase in temperature. Unless the heat from the compressor or device used to affect the cooling element is vented overboard, there is no benefit. Evaporative coolers or the ice units mentioned in earlier posts work because energy (heat) is consumed in changing ice to water or water to vapor.
Terry
 
Pirkka:
As the dry ice sublimates and cools the cabin, the already reduced oxygen that you're breathing at altitude is being replaced by carbon dioxide. It would make for interesting reading in an accident report.
Terry
 
careful with a cooler of dry ice

copied this from how things work website

Dry Ice Safety
If you ever have a chance to handle dry ice, you want to be sure to wear heavy gloves. The super-cold surface temperature can easily damage your skin if you touch it directly. For the same reason, you never want to taste or swallow dry ice, either.
Another important concern with dry ice is ventilation. You want to make sure the area is well-ventilated. Carbon dioxide is heavier than air, and it can concentrate in low areas or enclosed spaces (like a car or a room where dry ice is sublimating). Normal air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and only 0.035% carbon dioxide. If the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air rises above 5%, carbon dioxide can become toxic. Be sure to ventilate any area that contains dry ice, and do not transport it in a closed vehicle.
 
terrykohler said:
Pirkka:
As the dry ice sublimates and cools the cabin, the already reduced oxygen that you're breathing at altitude is being replaced by carbon dioxide. It would make for interesting reading in an accident report.
Terry
Click to expand...

Well, on first look, makes sense but... Howwver, how many threads have we had about drafty RV cockpits? There might be 1 or 2 RVs out there where CO2 might be able to supplant O but, only when stationary :D

This adds to the A/C issue. It's hard enough to heat these things. Cooling will be even more difficult with the greenhouse effect. Will need a humoungous compresssor and fan.

Jekyll
 
Jekyll:
Hope you're not suggesting that anyone fly with a toxic gas generator operating inside their aircraft. I wouldn't rely on a drafty cockpit to keep me safe if it was CO2 coming from the baggage bay or CO coming from the heater valve. Just my $.02.
Terry
 
Jekyll said:
Well, on first look, makes sense but... Howwver, how many threads have we had about drafty RV cockpits? There might be 1 or 2 RVs out there where CO2 might be able to supplant O but, only when stationary :D

This adds to the A/C issue. It's hard enough to heat these things. Cooling will be even more difficult with the greenhouse effect. Will need a humoungous compresssor and fan.

Jekyll
Click to expand...
Drafty houses are not going to keep you from dieing of carbon monoxide poisoning if you have a heater, hot water heater, cooking appliance malfunction. I most definitely would not be willing to rely on drafts to keep me alive while flying in an enclosed cockpit at an altitude where my oxygen levels are already depleted in the first place. Sounds like a horribly novel way to commit suicide. :(
 
terrykohler said:
Jekyll:
Hope you're not suggesting that anyone fly with a toxic gas generator operating inside their aircraft. I wouldn't rely on a drafty cockpit to keep me safe if it was CO2 coming from the baggage bay or CO coming from the heater valve. Just my $.02.
Terry
Click to expand...

No, just adding some irony. I personally don't think any A/C method would work well in a canopy RV, but that's just my opinion (not researched, tested or fact based).

As a side note, the effects and dangers of CO2 and CO are substantially different. CO2 needs to raise to quantity where it replaces the ambient air. Think of water raising to a level that covers your nose. I don't think a drafty cockpit would hold enough CO2 to suplant oxygen. We breath in a vast amount of CO2 each day. The danger comes when the the mixture becomes oxygen deficient. CO is much differnet. CO blowing by in a swirling edy can incapacitate you because the CO molecules latch on to your red blood cells with vigor preventing oxygen from attaching. Each breath containing CO reduces the blood's capacity to carry O, - it is cummulative and if you take it in faster than your systenm can elliminate it, well...

Jekyll
 
Why not a small simple compressor system that is on millions of compact cars. It could be smaller than the RV-10 system. Heck, I had a GEO metro 10 years ago that had 80hp 3 cylinder and was very comfortable in the worst heat. The compartment was bigger than a "7" compartment. It is not rocket science. There just is not a market for it. I would buy one though.

-Ron
 
rlo1 said:
Why not a small simple compressor system that is on millions of compact cars. It could be smaller than the RV-10 system. Heck, I had a GEO metro 10 years ago that had 80hp 3 cylinder and was very comfortable in the worst heat. The compartment was bigger than a "7" compartment. It is not rocket science. There just is not a market for it. I would buy one though.

-Ron
Click to expand...
It really isn't the capacity of the engine to drive it or the space it will be required to cool. It will always come down to how much does the system weigh? Because whatever it does weigh, that amount will be taken away from what the airplane can carry. This is the true problem.
 
Build9A said:
I actually bought the Koolerair unit and tried it in the plane and taxied around with it and flew the pattern. (North Florida in the 90s last summer). I didn't eactly follow the instructions. I used blue plastic freeze bags instead of ice. It didn't impress me. Soon after the first try we moved and I just unpacked it in my new hanger last week. I plan to try it with ice the next time. So I don't have a totally fair review,...yet. My plane is currently apart while I am completing my second annual inspection. If anyone is interested, I will provide an update when I get back in the air. jack
Click to expand...

Any luck with the Koolerair unit? Has anyone actually tried the Artic Air unit?
 
OOPS

I forgot to follow up on my promise for a second try with the coolerair unit. I've been using the small cooler for short boating trips though. This week, I promise (again) to post results. stay tuned...................
 
Update on A/C

My first post and many more to come as I prepare to buld or buy a RV7A.

Flight Line in Bend Oregon makes a 10,000 BTU "portable" air conditioner for aircraft. It weights 41 pounds which is alot, but consider that it can be taken out during the cooler months and anytime you need to recover the useful load. The company owner tells me it is installed on several RV10s, and that there is no reason it could not be used in an RV6, RV7 or RV9 with placement in the baggage compartment.

Costs around $6,000 which includes the "transition" or venting kit to the bottom of the fuselage for the air exchange.

And it requires a dedicated alternator on the engine generating 60 amps, such as one from RDD for $550. I suppose there would be a draw on the engine power when being used, but I don't have the details on that.

Nice to find a company that is actually trying to solve the air conditioning challenge with newer technolgoy and lower cost than traditional units.

For those who really need to be cooled and are not blown away by the cost of approximately $6,500. (Keith installations on certified aircraft such as the Cessna 182 typically cost around $20,000 and weight 70-80 pounds)

Stay cool.

Eric
 
Last edited:
j.c. whitney

this company has ac systems for cars starting around 1300 dollars. im sure it would not take much to make it work in a rv. the condensor will be the most work i think. im a hvac contractor in south fl and i am determined to have ac in my 7. a small evaporator and blower motor should be under 20lb and the compressor should be mounted on the engine to avoid the electrical load and added weight in the baggage area.
 
EricSGU said:
My first post and many more to come as I prepare to buld or buy a RV7A.

Flight Line in Bend Oregon makes a 10,000 BTU "portable" air conditioner for aircraft. It weights 41 pounds which is alot, but consider that it can be taken out during the cooler months and anytime you need to recover the useful load. The company owner tells me it is installed on several RV10s, and that there is no reason it could not be used in an RV6, RV7 or RV9 with placement in the baggage compartment.

Costs around $6,000 which includes the "transition" or venting kit to the bottom of the fuselage for the air exchange.

And it requires a dedicated alternator on the engine generating 60 amps, such as one from RDD for $550. I suppose there would be a draw on the engine power when being used, but I don't have the details on that.

Nice to find a company that is actually trying to solve the air conditioning challenge with newer technolgoy and lower cost than traditional units.

For those who really need to be cooled and are not blown away by the cost of approximately $6,500. (Keith installations on certified aircraft such as the Cessna 182 typically cost around $20,000 and weight 70-80 pounds)

Stay cool.
Click to expand...

Do the reverse of what I do. I head to southern Utah in the winter, and you can head north in the summer! :D I don't have A/C

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
A/C FOR A RV6,7

THERE IS A GUY IN LA. THAT HAS ONE THAT GOES IN THE BAGGAGE BIN. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 32lb. ELEC. DRIVEN. I WILL TRY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM AND POST.
 
Miata AC?

I've always wondered why no one adapted the AC unit from a Mazda Miata to one of the two seat RV's. The Miata AC compressor is small and light and is designed to cool a space about equal to our cabins.
 
I have a car a/c unit in my RV-10. No it is not a -7 but all the concepts are the same. You can buy the unit from companies like Jeggs. They aren't too difficult to install and they work great. The nice thing about the unit is the size. It should be able to fit nicely up front. I wish I would have put the blower and evaporator coil in the back though which helps neutralize the CG effect of the whole system.
 
Alex DeDominicis of www.rvtraining.com has an Airflow Systems AC unit in his new RV7 transition trainer. This is a built in system similar to the units made for the RV10 and it also has a cool looking P51 style belly scoop. The system consists of a small engine driven compressor, an evaporator/fan unit behind the baggage wall and a condenser mounted in the belly scoop. You can see the scoop in the pictures of Alex's RV7 on his website.

Martin Sutter
Building and flying RV's since 1988
EAA Technical Councelor
 
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