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Electric experimental

rvator51

Well Known Member
So which experimental aircraft company do you think will come out with an electric version of their kit and how long in the future?
 
Hybrid

So which experimental aircraft company do you think will come out with an electric version of their kit and how long in the future?

Maybe someday battery technology will catch up. Till then I wonder if a little diesel burning Jet A, pushing a generator, driving an electric would work?
 
As of now electric propulsion isn't legal for aircraft certified in the light sport category, another case where the FARs need to catch up with technology.
 
If it's classified as a glider (and what you can call a glider in the homebuilt world is pretty...liberal), then you don't need to worry about light sport rules. The medical rules are different for gliders; even motorgliders. No medical or alternate means of compliance is needed for gliders, and if my information is correct, that includes motor gliders.

I haven't looked lately; you might need a type rating if you 'motorize' a glider with a turbine. But I don't think the rules say anything about powerplant type (internal combustion vs. electric, vs. steam, for that matter) on a motorglider.

Anyone have better info?

Charlie

edit: An interesting side note is that many electrical advocates talk about glider-like platforms being the best path for early electric power development, because they are so much more efficient as airframes.
 
If it's classified as a glider (and what you can call a glider in the homebuilt world is pretty...liberal), then you don't need to worry about light sport rules. The medical rules are different for gliders; even motorgliders. No medical or alternate means of compliance is needed for gliders, and if my information is correct, that includes motor gliders.
I haven't looked lately; you might need a type rating if you 'motorize' a glider with a turbine. But I don't think the rules say anything about powerplant type (internal combustion vs. electric, vs. steam, for that matter) on a motorglider.
Anyone have better info?
Charlie

You are correct, for amateur-built motorglider, you do not need a medical, but you DO need a "glider" rating.
 
Here's the registration info--

-- on one of those PIPISTREL ALPHA ELECTROs

Aircraft Description
Serial Number 878 AE 60 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name PIPISTREL LSA S R L Certificate Issue Date 03/09/2018
Model ALPHA ELECTRO Expiration Date 03/31/2021
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Electric
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 50301070
MFR Year None Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A18238
Type Registration Government Fractional Owner NO

Cheers, David
 
A plug in electric would be great for local flying, but not so much for long cross-country flights. We bought a Chevy Bolt last year and love the EV experience. It really is amazing technology. 17,000 miles, never been to a gas station, no oil to change, quiet and plenty of torque.
 
Doesn't meet LSA definition!

Their web site says different...

In keeping with Pipistrel?s tradition of continuing evolution, quality, high tech manufacturing and now most importantly flying without ruining the environment through toxic gases or excessive noise, Pipistrel is proud to introduce the Pipistrel ALPHA Electro.

The name ?Pipistrel ALPHA Electro? describes the exact purpose of this exciting new aircraft designed for Light Sport Aircraft Flying Schools in markets and countries which have the FAA-LSA (or adaptation of ASTM rules) categories.

The aircraft has been designed with the ?essence of training? as its primary design goal; training has to start somewhere, just like the modern alphabet starts with the letter ?A? this new aircraft bears the name ALPHA, the ALPHA Electro to be exact.

The aircraft is available in a fixed configuration of instrumentation and is targeted directly to flight schools and the training market but can also be used by recreational flyers looking for a fully featured electric aircraft at very reasonable pricing.

And from the data sheet FAQ -

No, to keep the cost of the Pipistrel ALPHA ELECTRO as low as possible the
aircraft is only available in a set instrument configuration. One set
configuration for USA (LSA) markets and another set configuration for Europe.
 
Doesn't meet LSA definition!
Their web site says different...

The ASTM standards for LSAs, and the FAA's restrictions on what can fly in the US under the Light Sport rule, are not entirely the same. The FAA's rules are generally more restrictive than the ASTM standard. Other countries have different rules as well.

If I'm remembering correctly (since I don't have access to the standards any more):

ASTM does not restrict adjustable propellers
ASTM does not restrict retractable gear
ASTM stall speed limit is with flaps down, not up
ASTM does not restrict engine type



All that said, I'd expect that any purely-electric airplane is going to look a lot more like a motorglider (long skinny wings and likely slick composite) than an RV. You really need to cut drag.

Hybrid planes may look somewhat more conventional, but I expect the real benefit of a hybrid configuration is for special performance--use the electric parts for short-duration high-power stuff like short/vertical takeoffs and landings, and use the combustion engine for cruise and recharging. Your electrics then give you a "get on the ground safely" backup as well.
 
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So which experimental aircraft company do you think will come out with an electric version of their kit and how long in the future?

Someone with a vision to develop electric airplanes that are more than just adequate, like Elon Musk did for cars, needs to step in soon. Yes, it maybe possible to do a trainer or LSA size aircraft in the near term but technology for an RV replacement (sporty performance, aerobatic capable, great cross country range/speed) still a step or two away. Based on experimentals numbers of flying designs (Vans, Rutan stuff, Lancair, etc), the majority building experimentals want performance, not just being adequate.
Anybody hear of someone already working a Tesla RV? From this posting looks like there is a start by a couple companys working on aerobatic performance. Probably not yet getting the range/speed.
 
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Their web site says different...
In keeping with Pipistrel?s tradition of continuing evolution, quality, high tech manufacturing and now most importantly flying without ruining the environment through toxic gases or excessive noise, Pipistrel is proud to introduce the Pipistrel ALPHA Electro.
The name ?Pipistrel ALPHA Electro? describes the exact purpose of this exciting new aircraft designed for Light Sport Aircraft Flying Schools in markets and countries which have the FAA-LSA (or adaptation of ASTM rules) categories.
The aircraft has been designed with the ?essence of training? as its primary design goal; training has to start somewhere, just like the modern alphabet starts with the letter ?A? this new aircraft bears the name ALPHA, the ALPHA Electro to be exact.
The aircraft is available in a fixed configuration of instrumentation and is targeted directly to flight schools and the training market but can also be used by recreational flyers looking for a fully featured electric aircraft at very reasonable pricing.

And from the data sheet FAQ -
No, to keep the cost of the Pipistrel ALPHA ELECTRO as low as possible theaircraft is only available in a set instrument configuration. One set
configuration for USA (LSA) markets and another set configuration for Europe.
That's nice for their website. However as a DAR, I have to follow FAA Regulations and Orders, and I have not received any information on changes or exemptions to the Regs. I have questions in to Oklahoma City.
 
The name “Pipistrel ALPHA Electro” describes the exact purpose of this exciting new aircraft designed for Light Sport Aircraft Flying Schools in markets and countries which have the FAA-LSA (or adaptation of ASTM rules) categories.

Note that it says "designed for".

It may meet all of the ASTM design requirements for LSA, but if it doesn't meet the FAA's basic requirements (reciprocating engine) then it still doesn't qualify.
Perhaps they are banking on the rules eventually catching up with technology.......
 
That's nice for their website. However as a DAR, I have to follow FAA Regulations and Orders, and I have not received any information on changes or exemptions to the Regs. I have questions in to Oklahoma City.

Interesting, but I bet the are using this bit of FAR 21.190 :)


(d)Light-sport aircraft manufactured outside the United States. For aircraft manufactured outside of the United States to be eligible for a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category, an applicant must meet the requirements of paragraph (b) of this section and provide to the FAA evidence that -

(1) The aircraft was manufactured in a country with which the United States has a Bilateral Airworthiness Agreement concerning airplanes or Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreement with associated Implementation Procedures for Airworthiness concerning airplanes, or an equivalent airworthiness agreement; and

(2) The aircraft is eligible for an airworthiness certificate, flight authorization, or other similar certification in its country of manufacture.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/21.190

Could be the US FARs are restricting US manufacturers.

The paragraph (b) reference above is basically documentation.
 
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First market for electric will be training, where moderately short training flights are interrupted by ground training (time to recharge).

Useful energy density for batteries is still something like 1/30th that of gasoline, although you regain some weight allowance for a lighter motor + accessories. Some believe they will never be equal, although even close might be "good enough" given the lighter motors.

Like virtually all of mankind's technologies, the progress on batteries as been almost perfectly exponential in price (but not necessarily in energy density) for about 65 years now, and excluding Edison batteries which lasted virtually forever but had low efficiency. Also like other technologies eventually we will hit limits in physics; materials cost; labor costs; or simply run out of new ideas and capability / price will plateau. For ground vehicles weight is not so much a problem; experts now are pretty much in agreement that EVs will be cheaper than gas guzzlers within 10 years.
 
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