Home > VansAirForceForums

- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > Safety
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-15-2019, 09:22 AM
Paul 5r4 Paul 5r4 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Foley, Al
Posts: 481

NEVER TURN BACK! Just a few months ago at my home airport an inst and student lost an engine and crashed. Student eventually passed and the inst is still in a special neuro unit and I'm told has a very poor prognosis. There were two witnesses to the crash and each one disagrees with the other. One said the aircraft turned back after being north of the field over a housing area just after take off. The other witness said the aircraft appeared to have snapped to the left after stalling before it reached the departure end of the runway. The sad thing is in either scerino the aircraft stalled causing the end result.

When Vic mentioned the temptation to turn back and how strong it was, this must be what happed here. The inst was very experienced. I've never lost engine after takeoff but Vic's story and what happed here has cemented inside my brain to land straight ahead or nearly straight ahead. I read an article once that said at the time of an engine failure on takeoff we should think of our pretty airplanes as an enemy that's betrayed us and that our thinking and goals now are to walk away from the landing/crash and not worry about the plane.
Paul Gray
Foley, Alabama
N729PG..... 450+ hrs
RV 7A, Lycoming 0 320 D1A, Sensenich FP propeller
VAF supporter $$$
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2019, 06:40 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 410

Here's this fighter pilot's approach for using angle of attack to managing energy engine-out in 2500 words or less: The paper contains hyperlinks to demonstration and test videos as well as a couple of "SFO" or simulated flame out patterns that I practice regularly to help maintain proficiency.

Please keep in mind that I'm not advocating for or against maneuvering prior to a forced landing. Here is a short briefing and demonstration of a turn back from relatively low altitude after takeoff (250' AGL) using AOA as the primary reference for energy: The minimum altitude for maneuvering (in this example, turning back to the departure runway) depends on aircraft performance and configuration, pilot proficiency and ambient conditions. The nature of the aural AOA system in my airplane and the fact that AOA doesn't care about G load, gross weight or density altitude makes this drill relatively straight forward without any cockpit math, other than a minimum altitude at which to begin the maneuver. Maneuver as desired and maintain ONSPEED AOA (using pitch). The AOA system you hear in the video is identical to one that we used to have in one of the fighters I've flown.

I've had four engine failures in my career, two in single-engine pistons when I was a young CFI and two in multi engined jet fighters, no bent metal; but I've been fortunate. I would advocate for education (the book in the original post in this thread or the webinar in the post below), regular practice and familiarity with the glide characteristics of the airplane you are currently flying. We have additional training and reference resources on our website ( if you are interested in learning more about the AOA system in my airplane or the handling techniques employed when flying AOA, and the information in this post is also discussed in the transition training syllabus available in the sticky at the top of the safety page. We update both regularly.

Fly Safe,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida

Last edited by Vac : 09-23-2019 at 05:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2019, 07:52 AM
PhatRV PhatRV is offline
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Buena Park, California
Posts: 88
Default EAA: Avoid Loss of Control on Take Off

The EAA has an excellent series of webinars discussing the topic of how to avoid the loss of control. The webinar video is titled " Avoiding Loss of Control: Inflight During Takeoff".

Webinar introduction:
"International Aerobatic Club Member and Certified Flight Instructor Gordon Penner discusses decision making in takeoff phase, from the beginning of the takeoff roll to the point where a safe return altitude is reached."

This video is about 1hr 40 minutes long but you have to be an EAA member to view it.

A screenshot excerpt from the webinar:

RV8 standard build: Empennage 99% completed
Wing -- Closed
Fuselage -- Canoe stage

Donation paid through 2020
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:38 PM.

The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.