What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Screwdrivers

madmaveric

madmaveric

Well Known Member
Hi,

After stripping the head out of another screw it is time to invest in some screwdrivers.

Can someone tell me what type of head the vans screws have (i.e. An515 8R8 screws seem especially problematic).

I have heard of imperial and flat cut heads as well as Philips and posidrive but up until now I have just used the best driver that fits and not really given it too much thought.
With all my tool kits and screwdriver bits I have collected over the years I just don't seem to have anything that allows much force before they jump (no matter how good they seem to fit prior to using them).

I've been wondering if the issue is with the metric types sold here in the uk being different to the imperial kit VANS supplies.

So is there something I should be looking for when buying an 'VANS' screwdriver in the uk or will any of the normal good quality kits work.
 
madmaveric said:
Hi,

After stripping the head out of another screw it is time to invest in some screwdrivers.

Can someone tell me what type of head the vans screws have (i.e. An515 8R8 screws seem especially problematic).

I have heard of imperial and flat cut heads as well as Philips and posidrive but up until now I have just used the best driver that fits and not really given it too much thought.
With all my tool kits and screwdriver bits I have collected over the years I just don't seem to have anything that allows much force before they jump (no matter how good they seem to fit prior to using them).

I've been wondering if the issue is with the metric types sold here in the uk being different to the imperial kit VANS supplies.

So is there something I should be looking for when buying an 'VANS' screwdriver in the uk or will any of the normal good quality kits work.
Click to expand...

I use a hex adapter on a 1/4 drive handle and use the replaceable tips for drywall screws. They seem to be dimensioned better than the screwdrivers. Take a test screw to the store to be sure, it seems there are a couple of different ones now. Don't know about the UK :confused:
 
Last edited:
Screwdriver bits in the UK are no different to those in the US.

The most common size that you'll need is a #2 Phillips for all your #8 and #10 screws.

A little Boelube on the screw will often help preventing them seizing and ease the subsequent unscrewing.

Avoid using the Pozidrive type bits which won't grip a Phillips head properly.
 
With Tools, You Generally Get What You Pay For

I've got one of these in my travel tool kit and one in my roll chest.

https://store.snapon.com/Complete-S...Soft-Grip-Stubby-Red-Screwdriver-P643053.aspx

Tip fits perfectly into the aviation screws and is magnetic and surfaced to provide positive engagement. It won't cause damage going in and will help get out screws that have buggered heads.

A bit pricy at $68.00, but like they used to say at John Deere, "We may not be your first, but we'll be your last".

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
I think the philips/posidrive difference could be what I'm suffering from, some of my tools are probably over 50 years old (my Dad started a haulage company when he came out of WW2 so I have lots of weird tools from him).

My spanners are a combination of whitworth, BSF, AF etc, some of these have been useful (most tools here now are metric except for old vehicles and the RV :p)

I'll source some philips head screwdrivers for the rest of the build, thanks.
 
It's magic. IMHO some bits are just better than others. The odds seem to go up of getting a good one, as you spend more. I have a middle priced Craftsman Phillips screwdriver that would remove stuck screws after other bits had failed to do so. After many years it clearly was worn, and I bought the current replacement. It didn't work as well.
 
terrykohler said:
I've got one of these in my travel tool kit and one in my roll chest.

https://store.snapon.com/Complete-S...Soft-Grip-Stubby-Red-Screwdriver-P643053.aspx

Tip fits perfectly into the aviation screws and is magnetic and surfaced to provide positive engagement. It won't cause damage going in and will help get out screws that have buggered heads.

A bit pricy at $68.00, but like they used to say at John Deere, "We may not be your first, but we'll be your last".

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Click to expand...
That looks perfect but having just been made redundant it will have to be a cheaper option for the time being :(

On a side note my Dad was vocal on the quality of snap on tools as they lasted longer than other tools, which wasn't long in his case, sadly the agent eventually stopped supplying him due to his tendency to break them :eek:

I once caught him with a breaker bar on an large nut, together with about 7 foot of pipe, bouncing his 14 stone weight on it while holding onto the side of the lorry.
After several broken ratchets, breaker bars and sockets the agent, understandably, offered him a refund as they couldn't keep replacing them.
Sadly I only seem to have a few snapon tools left as I think the employees over the years 'lost' them, none fit the RV though.
 
The best traditional hand held/operated #2 Phillips screwdriver I have ever owned was a Snap On, hands down no comparison.

However, I now almost totally use an battery drill with replaceable tips. And I have less problem stripping out screws mainly due to the pistol grip and the fact I can apply more force inward to keep the bit in the screw to prevent it from twisting out of the recess in the first place-------not the quality of the bit.

Jon----got any Bristol spline wrenches in your dads old stuff?? I just had to use one yesterday to fix my sons pocket knife.
 
I really like my P Bauman screwdrivers. They seem to have discontinued the (thin) gold plated set I have, which is kind of classy, but I'm sure the regular are just as good. The slotted are ground so they are not wedge shaped. (nice for not messing up gun screws)
http://www.pbswisstools.com/en/tools/quality-hand-tools/screwdrivers/all-products/?tx_pbstproduct_product[filter][facets][2001][]=2

I also have some Klein for big screws (rocker covers, etc.) and some old Snap-on's, but the PB's are what I use most on the RV project.
Lot's of quality choices out there, just avoid the consumer grade stuff at the big box stores.
 
Look closely at the Phillips screwdriver tip. It usually comes to a point, but sometimes it doesn't.

Now look at the "valley" of the Phillips screw you are trying to install. It usually DOES NOT form a sharp point in the center of the recess. If this is the case, then the driver will bottom out in the screw recess before the driver flutes are fully engaged in the sides of the screw.

A simple solution is to file some of the tip off of the Phillips driver so that it will fully engage the screw and not cam out of the screw as you apply torque.

Do a web search on Phillips vs Wentworth vs Reed and Prince.
 
Mike S said:
The best traditional hand held/operated #2 Phillips screwdriver I have ever owned was a Snap On, hands down no comparison.

However, I now almost totally use an battery drill with replaceable tips. And I have less problem stripping out screws mainly due to the pistol grip and the fact I can apply more force inward to keep the bit in the screw to prevent it from twisting out of the recess in the first place-------not the quality of the bit.

Jon----got any Bristol spline wrenches in your dads old stuff?? I just had to use one yesterday to fix my sons pocket knife.
Click to expand...

Possibly, as Bristol spline rings a bell, I haven't looked at the old metal boxes they are stored in for a while (I have a rummage once in a while when I don't have a spanner in my normal box). One day I keep saying I will get some proper tool boxes and sort them out ... after the RV is finished of course :D

I have just purchased a new snap on screwdriver as I suspect over the years I will be removing these screws a bit. I only got the standard one though but even that was ?21 but will be worth it in the long run.

I may well invest in the one above in the future as that looks perfect for the toolkit.

I'll check out the P Bauman screwdrivers as well, might add a stubby from them as they look a reasonable price

I always check the bit in the screw prior to using them, even when they appear tight (no side to side rocking and locked in) they don't seem work as well as they should. Hopefully the new one will work better.
 
Something like that would be good but as my last purchase for two drill bits cost $14 in shipping (FedEx quote was $58 :eek:) it wouldn't be viable from the uk.

Sadly the sterling drop against the dollar and shipping costs now makes almost all small (<$100) purchases from there for us in the UK too expensive. Add on VAT and handling charges and it can get end up as quite a lot :(
 
One of the better pieces of advice I ever got is to ditch the Vans screws for torx heads. No more stripped fasteners.
 
Screwdriver bits

Aviation screws don't like the pointy ends on some Phillips bits. The best bit I have found are Apex #2 bits, which have a blunt tip. These fit aviation screws so well that a screw will not fall off the bit when it is held close to horizontal. I buy a dozen whenever I see them in an automotive shop, and they are also available on Amazon. High quality drywall bits with rounded tips work fairly well too.
Jay
 
Torx

upperdeck said:
One of the better pieces of advice I ever got is to ditch the Vans screws for torx heads. No more stripped fasteners.
Click to expand...
Torx are great - I just wish someone created a version with the cadmium plating instead of stainless steel. I've seen some galvanic corrosion charts that show that stainless steel and aluminum don't play well together.
 
madmaveric said:
It looks like the bits are available from the uk. Not sure of the quality but at those prices I'll give them a shot. [URL="https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/cromwell/prod/philips-acr-no-2-1-4inch-hex-25mm-o-a/p/KEN5738650K] link [/URL].
Click to expand...

And you can replace it cheaper to try a better one. Many more options.
 
madmaveric said:
Something like that would be good but as my last purchase for two drill bits cost $14 in shipping (FedEx quote was $58 :eek:) it wouldn't be viable from the uk.

Sadly the sterling drop against the dollar and shipping costs now makes almost all small (<$100) purchases from there for us in the UK too expensive. Add on VAT and handling charges and it can get end up as quite a lot :(
Click to expand...


As a Brit (and RV-12 builder) living in the USA I'm always happy to ship items for you when the supplier is charging a stupid international shipping fee. I just changed job otherwise I was in Europe every other month so I could hand carry stuff.

Robert
 
madmaveric said:
It looks like the bits are available from the uk. Not sure of the quality but at those prices I'll give them a shot. [URL="https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/cromwell/prod/philips-acr-no-2-1-4inch-hex-25mm-o-a/p/KEN5738650K[/URL].
Click to expand...

That looks like the bit I have had the best luck with in the USA. The serrations near the tip makes a big difference. As of today, ?0.92 = $1.12 USD. That is similar price to high quality ones that I like best.
 
Wera Screwdrivers...
SMO said:
Were you able to source those locally, Ron?
Click to expand...

You used to be able to get them through Lee Valley Tools but they have stopped carrying them. A quick search shows them listed on Amazon, Acklands and others...
 
The OP sounded like heads being twisted off during installation. If that's the case, it's not a screwdriver problem.
 
upperdeck said:
One of the better pieces of advice I ever got is to ditch the Vans screws for torx heads. No more stripped fasteners.
Click to expand...

Hey, you can't make a post like that here on VAF without giving some purchase/product details! Inquiring minds.... ;-)

regards
~Marc
 
One short term solution for when you have buggered the head is to use a little bit of valve grinding compound on the tip of the screwdriver. Not a solution to top quality screwdrivers. But, at least it helps extract a screw that you are have choice words with.
 
Gisnar said:
One short term solution for when you have buggered the head is to use a little bit of valve grinding compound on the tip of the screwdriver. Not a solution to top quality screwdrivers. But, at least it helps extract a screw that you are have choice words with.
Click to expand...

A Dremel with cutoff wheel will cut a slot in the head so a plain screwdriver can be used to back out the stripped screw.
 
My solution to this age-old problem

has been to invest in a $et of Wiha German-made screwdrivers, use a wax bowl ring to lube all threads going into nutplates, and a dab of valve lapping compound on the tip of the driver to help with non-slip engagement into the screw head. A tad messy and somewhat tedious, but I've stuck too many screws especially #6's to skip these steps anymore.
 
rv7charlie said:
The OP sounded like heads being twisted off during installation. If that's the case, it's not a screwdriver problem.
Click to expand...

The issue was when trying to tighten the screws the screwdriver would 'jump' and mess up the cross cut in the heads, it didn't matter how hard I pushed to stop it. This has happened on several screws so I put it down to badly fitting screwdriver rather than several overnight nutplates (one or two maybe the nutplate, but it has happened quite a few times now)

I'm currently looking after my father who is sick so won't be checking the boards as often as normal but I'll try and keep up
 
madmaveric said:
The issue was when trying to tighten the screws the screwdriver would 'jump' and mess up the cross cut in the heads, it didn't matter how hard I pushed to stop it. This has happened on several screws so I put it down to badly fitting screwdriver rather than several overnight nutplates (one or two maybe the nutplate, but it has happened quite a few times now)

I'm currently looking after my father who is sick so won't be checking the boards as often as normal but I'll try and keep up
Click to expand...

I posted the suggestion to use the mass produced tips earlier but did not say why, so here is the long version. During installation of my plenum #6 stainless screws were used into nut plates. You can not push much on the 032 material, just too springy.

The screwdrivers (several tried) always slipped on the final tightening or initial loosening. I saw this little ratchet handle at Sears (other make them some better) for the 1/4" hex.
ejoLqXuKoe6c9Hv9hZicw0mu3l_sm2okAUFpFsSgshFlNYB4MtZpOoPlp2-AxmtdLHlkHeUVuFw3osjFjGoUoIatIGsJ24glC1kBRcnStYEpW3tdjeDf-ajOdT2Rj1pwu6nyBVX0a_owdYFhKdoS1-6csE7DFMWgPcDLGHxOIDXBy8uvmddkejp-Foj2TPKWSY_d9X184FBJnoxTqT2ETrmki56GduXuPAVBd03rwcLKYk9pTPRJjFyiMe3dQSKAtvKc3VFks4KzPJ0EYkfM9jKamZGL3RXaNOjxdqRdFKaz7XKOnauktqF1wldeWzmJpsSpyGiwO-ca-0co1JfLcKrSusSLzYtYsGIugrVmZQJBUehWqOHivEx3kCeMNk4UDuOc2hwPJKof_Zeij7ALZWZaSXTAdzKGFJlW5F1Fc7xh00Hmy--BM8mfPzkbnNm7vyg5Fy4JJgXsRTksdhGs5pM6sE3n8_1DRNrldz7R1JgKTmmRzF_SH8r3QzWS7mE1F8czGnk2fEHuewo-Uaz9fphV6nzAWKj0VhjpNjcaJejw1T3LcyRGZzsnSjqa_G00UfDwi_QqDtXyVyUjxCc8SEsAn7C2T3mrcYcBaJ6fIqaOUPmwhb_Qbh1fN856eQbiMu70RlzqzcokXMs5-QcA3kyCa0Ezq9SEpk9FmxOWAg=w400-no


It never slipped. I thought it was force, or leverage, or it was more square to the screw. Until I got an adapter and used it as a screwdriver with a 1/4 " drive driver handle. Only then did I discover that it just did not come out as easy. Since they are made for power tools, if they come out easily they are garbage and get tossed. With that configuration I now never use a regular screwdriver. So ends the long version.
 
SS screws

gasman said:
Stainless screws, no matter what kind of head, come with their own set of problems.
Click to expand...
I learned that the hard way. They always seem to bind in the nutplates. After having to use my Dremel to grind slots in the heads so I could remove the stuck screws, I went back to carbon steel screws. Problem solved. The SS screws are too darn soft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top