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How to make professional wire runs

blueflyer

blueflyer

Well Known Member
I have seen people's wire runs behind their panel and they look absolutely beautiful (like the photo below).



I have tried to wire up (mock ups with wood "panel") my future panel 3 different times now, and they start out wonderfully for the first few wires. But, by the time I get all the wire in there, I have lost control of the wires, they are no longer smooth and straight, but look more like a loose conglomeration of runs. Frankly, they turn out embarrassing. I want to make my behind the panel wire runs look as good as the pros.

I have searched the archives with no luck in tips, tricks, or videos on a "how to" make professional wire runs. Any tips/tricks would be appreciated.
 
1) Make sure to smooth each wire before you install it, as you uncoil it - no kins or bumps.

2) Buy a ton of really cheap (Harbor Freight), small zip-ties and use them as temporary bundling retainers as you add wires.

3) Plan in advance where everything is going to have to go, leave nice bend radii, and as you add each wire, make sure you feed them into the bundle in parallel.

4) If wires have to exit the bundle, think about how it should leave - don't let it weave through several wires first.

Like any part of a build, it is all about not getting rushed, not accepting compromises, thinking and planning ahead, and having a mental picture of what the finished product should look like.
 
Mine are not as clean as what your photo shows but it really helps to start all your wires at the panel and run them away towards the end use, and it helps to assemble your bundles with trmporary zip ties. I used the brightest colors I could find so I knew they were temporary.

I ran into a few issues, such as forgetting a wire or two after the bundles were completed and then trying to "fish another wire in". I also added stuff after the fact and some wires were just not long enough to go where I wanted them without cutting corners! At some point, there is the lone wire that has to go it's own way!

Paul Dye has some older post where he addresses this issue and they are worth reading.

Good luck and take your time. I found it better to have a good job even if I waisted a lot of wire redoing things.

(WOW, Paul Dye must have hit the post button as I was typing!)
 
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I am envious of those with the pretty wiring skills. I tried to do mine that way but with all the connections, and doing a component at a time to ensure proper connections, a LOT OF IN PROCESS REWORK took place.

Get a thousand (really -a thousand) little zip ties, you will use most of them. Placing all your components, then thinking about each wire bundle path, will help, but (warning!) your head might explode trying to know all of this at once in order to make the complicated look simple.

I have concluded there is no way to run all the wires, terminate, then go back and make them in bundles and smooth. NO WAY. If I do this again, I will definitely build a wooden buck with all the turns so wires can be pulled around a fixed radius.

I liked a post where the builder had a wooden buck with the panel, sub panel, firewall all there to make the bundles. He even took it to Iraq/Afghanistan (?). I think that is what it would take to make this work. At least to keep MY head from exploding. I took a year to do this part, and it still does not all look like the OP picture.

In the end, I used lacing cord as banging around that zip tie tool and looking at the results of lacing - it just looks better. I even bought, UV tolerant, high temperature, T&B ties with the stainless tang for the finished work, but mostly use the lacing.

Good luck, happy wiring.

PS - I was a cable installer for Western Electric when I was young (1971). In the 7 story building each floor ( the whole floor) had about 5-6 feet thick layer of cables going hither and yon. After training to run them straight and bundle as you went, seeing the real thing was a big shock. Imagine how many 26ga wires are in that 6 foot thick mess. The visible ends below ceiling grade were always beautiful. We used waxed flax string, as tie wraps were just being introduced. We had to use the tension/cutting tire wrap tool to avoid cutting cable sheathing. I will never forget the color code, blue, orange, green, brown, slate, with W R B Y tracers.
 
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A wire comb helps a lot, simple as a notched board to fancy factory made tools.

Here is a pretty extreme example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cFToZt_KzI

I find it is a lot easier to run all the wire long, bundle it up, then cut to length and terminate the other end last. You will need to label each wire, or color code or just tone them out one by one doing it this way, but it is a good way to get nice looking bundles.

Gotta admit that I have never done a bundle as massive as shown in the first post photo, but the concept is the same, just the scale changes.
 
Cable

Ironflight said:
1) Make sure to smooth each wire before you install it, as you uncoil it - no kins or bumps.
Click to expand...

As Paul mentioned. UNCOIL wire. If you simply pull it from a coil, it will gain a full twist for every coil. The result will be tons of kinks and untwisting.
 
Separate harness cables can be made on a plywood sheet with nails or screws as guides for the wire segments -

RV-Harness_zpsc8b7bd9f.jpg
 
My second panel was better than my first :)

I found alternative to a bazilion zip ties - Velcro ties. I was much less concerned with cutting and replacing lots of ties. The Velcro ties allowed me to make corrections easily - even long ones.


I got them from Amazon
 
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Glen, I've got a roll of the Velcro strap that I'm going to use too for preliminary bundling, and I may use it to secure service loops too. Great stuff!

When the wiring is finalized I'll use tie wraps. I hate having to clip them over and over as I add wires, and if I leave them loose to slip wires in afterward, they just don't position the wires as I'd like.
 
If you are using zip ties, do yourself a favor and get a pair of flush cutting pliers to nip off the tails. They do not leave mini razor blades where you thought was a harmless zip tie.

PLAT-10531.jpg


You can even make your own, just grind (slow and easy, dont overheat) off the face of a pair of side cutters like this------helps to polish them to a final finish with a Scotchbrite wheel.

semi-full-flush-cutter-comparison.jpg
 
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I got an eastwood zip tie gun. Use it in a tunnel with (almost) one hand. Consistent tension and snips the end. Pretty low cost ($18) and it is metal. I am quite happy with it. You will get proficient at wrapping a tie and inserting the end with one hand. Snap tension is adjustable.

http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Professional-Cable-Wire-Tie/dp/B006ISG5M0/?tag=wwwfatcitcom-20


I tried the velcro wraps, ( I tried everything) but they would not keep a tight bundle and they had to be re tightened as I progressed with each wire to ensure not cutting it short or adding 2 feet to each connection for insurance. YMMV of course.

Get the flush cutters too, you will like the precision cut when installing d-sub pins.

edit: full disclosure - Steins guys wired my panel, I did the connections from there - it still took a year!!
 
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One more thing

Not so much to do with the neat look of a nicely tied wire bundle but I think just as important.
Use Colored wires
I used Stein's color concept, so you don't have to invent your own.
Red for 12V, Black for Ground all other colors are signal wires.

Colored wire makes maintenance soooooo much easier if you ever have to find a "gremlin".
 
There have been some very excellent bits of information shared, but I'll add and expound on a couple of them.

1) Use LOTS and LOTS of zip ties (like hundreds or thousands of them). They are cheap, and good "temporary" holders of wires as you build a harness.
2) Use things like clamps or rods or other devices to hold the wire bundles in place as you assemble them.
3) Run each wire one at a time, and then be careful how you run them. Remember this is not a knitting project or crochet...weaving wires is not what we're after here.
4) Use colors as others have mentioned. Red for Power, Black for Ground, Yellow for dimmer wires, Blue for RS232, Green for shield terminations, etc..

Below are a couple pictures I snapped with my cell phone of various panels in various stages of construct. Notice the judicious use of zip ties by our technicians, even for the smallest of bundles as they build them. Often times this will allow you a final "comb" or straightening/training of the wires before you do the final lace of final zip ties. When they are done, they snip off the zip ties (carefully not cutting the wire) and then hand lace from there. The finished product usually comes out very nice.

Maybe we'll try to make a quick video 'splanin some of it! :) Sorry for all the pictures, but sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Cheers,
Stein

IMG_0206.JPG
IMG_0201.JPG

IMG_0202.JPG
IMG_0203.JPG

IMG_0205.JPG
back%2520panel%25206.JPG

back%2520panel%25204.JPG
P7182379.JPG
 
I appreciate all the well thought out tips/explanations. I have been using some of the suggestions posted so far, and I made note of a few tips I will try as well. I think I get overwhelmed and that's when the bundles get out of control.
 
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Thinking of system architecture and complexity here, one of the things I've learned over the years is that simple is elegant. It ain't easy one bit, though. At least two of the more popular glass panel companies seem to feature systems which are very modular. That adds considerable opportunities in growth and future improvements, but physically simple or elegant in concept, it's not. I expect it's heavy, too. And the inherent complexity is worrisome.

P7182379.JPG


Still this thread and the work presented shows that it's possible to install it well. Someone else originally posted this other view of the art - thanks! - and I think you guys have gotten past that.

20fyflh.jpg


Dave
 
Thanks for posting those tips!
I'm no longer a beginner, I'm also not yet 'good'.
My tip for the starter is simply: START doing it, or you will never learn.
My first panel job got lots of compliments....from people who don't do panels or wiring. I see the warts all the time. But it still works.
Each job gets better, eventually I hope to become 'good'.
I read all these tips I can. I attended the Sport air workshop on aircraft wiring.
I buy good tools when I need them, and / or learn about them, like here. I'll be looking into wire spoons, and velcro ties.
 
Those massive bundles of wiring look really neat, but they frighten me. the heat build up could be terrific if they carry much load. Steins work looks really good and the bundles small enough to keep cool. my own panel will surely be cool as the bundles are very small. not game to post a picture.
 
Panal

Stein, Some of those pics look like a panel that I have seen before! Looks Good Thanks Ron
 
Yen said:
Those massive bundles of wiring look really neat, but they frighten me. the heat build up could be terrific if they carry much load.
Click to expand...
If you have enough temperature rise on a wire to be a concern, you used wire that's too small for the job.
 
DaleB said:
If you have enough temperature rise on a wire to be a concern, you used wire that's too small for the job.
Click to expand...

True. A lot of those wires are going to be signal wires, carrying milliamps. Certainly if anything was getting hot I'd find out why and re-size as required.
 
BillL said:
I am envious of those with the pretty wiring skills. I tried to do mine that way but with all the connections, and doing a component at a time to ensure proper connections, a LOT OF IN PROCESS REWORK took place.

Get a thousand (really -a thousand) little zip ties, you will use most of them. Placing all your components, then thinking about each wire bundle path, will help, but (warning!) your head might explode trying to know all of this at once in order to make the complicated look simple.

I have concluded there is no way to run all the wires, terminate, then go back and make them in bundles and smooth. NO WAY. If I do this again, I will definitely build a wooden buck with all the turns so wires can be pulled around a fixed radius.

I liked a post where the builder had a wooden buck with the panel, sub panel, firewall all there to make the bundles. He even took it to Iraq/Afghanistan (?). I think that is what it would take to make this work. At least to keep MY head from exploding. I took a year to do this part, and it still does not all look like the OP picture.

In the end, I used lacing cord as banging around that zip tie tool and looking at the results of lacing - it just looks better. I even bought, UV tolerant, high temperature, T&B ties with the stainless tang for the finished work, but mostly use the lacing.

Good luck, happy wiring.

PS - I was a cable installer for Western Electric when I was young (1971). In the 7 story building each floor ( the whole floor) had about 5-6 feet thick layer of cables going hither and yon. After training to run them straight and bundle as you went, seeing the real thing was a big shock. Imagine how many 26ga wires are in that 6 foot thick mess. The visible ends below ceiling grade were always beautiful. We used waxed flax string, as tie wraps were just being introduced. We had to use the tension/cutting tire wrap tool to avoid cutting cable sheathing. I will never forget the color code, blue, orange, green, brown, slate, with W R B Y tracers.
Click to expand...

You forgot Violet ;)
 
I never had any luck making my wiring runs look like this. I have a combination of harnesses built for me and wires I had to run myself. There were just too many different routes each had to take to get where it needed to get to.

But everything works. I know where every wire is. I can do work on one wire without causing complete havoc and when the canopy is closed, I describe th wiring that's under it to make it appear to be exactly what is pictured here.
 
lr172 said:
You forgot Violet ;)
Click to expand...
WOW, I sure did, I REALLY,deeply forgot, W R B Y V - -

I wonder how that happened!?!? Thanks for the correction. I guess when you don't use something for 43 years something gets forgotten.
 
blueflyer said:
That is one of my problems that I was unable to clearly articulate in my first post. Thank you.
Click to expand...

And one of the things I was most concerned about -- I take that back, the the thing I was most concerned about -- is keeping noise out of the avionics. I went to some stupid and probably ugly lengths to do that. But you know what? There's no noise in the system.

Also, by using the VP-50, I didn't have a lot of wiring to do.
 
One thing about bigger bundles: run the longest runs first. That way wires that exit the bundle will tend to be toward the outside of the bundle, which helps keep it neat.
 
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