Van's Air Force
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Actual IFR Traning in RVs
- Thread starter Jamie
- Start date
rvatornate
Active Member
Jamie,
I did the PIC 10 day instrument course in my RV-9A. No worries at all. The DE was very willing to do the checkride in the RV and seemed to enjoy the capabilities of the aircraft. If you want more details, let me know, I can blab on and on if you like.
Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9E 446 hours
I did the PIC 10 day instrument course in my RV-9A. No worries at all. The DE was very willing to do the checkride in the RV and seemed to enjoy the capabilities of the aircraft. If you want more details, let me know, I can blab on and on if you like.
Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9E 446 hours
tomcostanza
Well Known Member
Tell me everything
Nathan,
I'm very interested in your ifr training experience. I'm building a -7A and would like to do my instrument training in it. I'm especially interested in how yours is equiped and what your experiences are.
Regards,
Tom Costanza
Nathan,
I'm very interested in your ifr training experience. I'm building a -7A and would like to do my instrument training in it. I'm especially interested in how yours is equiped and what your experiences are.
Regards,
Tom Costanza
DickF
Active Member
Yes, it is true, all my IFR training and the IFR checkride was done in my RV-6A. When I built the 6A I had no intention of going the IFR route, so I also had to upgrade my panel to be IFR. I have a slider, so that meant a lot of time spent on my back under the panel.
Regarding the training, I think it went pretty much as expected. I had an auto pilot, but throughout the training and the checkride, using it was not allowed. I continue to practice and maintain my currency without using the autopilot. Having said that, I would not care to be IMC without the autopilot... I found that keeping the wings level while changing frequencies or charts or any number of other activites takes a lot of concentration without the AP.
Regarding the training, I think it went pretty much as expected. I had an auto pilot, but throughout the training and the checkride, using it was not allowed. I continue to practice and maintain my currency without using the autopilot. Having said that, I would not care to be IMC without the autopilot... I found that keeping the wings level while changing frequencies or charts or any number of other activites takes a lot of concentration without the AP.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
NDB need not apply
I am a CFII and had an IFR RV-4 at one time. I never took a check ride in a RV or trained anyone for IFR ops in a RV.
I found my RV-4's IFR capability where not utilized much in the 800 hours I flew it. It did not have an autopilot so it was......... I can't say was a handful, but it was not relaxed. To do administrative duties in IMC like getting plates or en-route charts out was not fun, in part the cockpit size and part the plane is not super stable. Its not that it's bad but if you have to let go of the stick for a second and the wing does dip, speed can build quickly. I second the opinion that an autopilot for single pilot Ops is a must have. Most examiners will let you use it for brief periods on a check ride between approaches as I understand it.
As far as NAV equipment, check the archives, but you do not need a NDB. In Van's RVator news letter many years ago there was an article about flying IFR in RV's that was pretty good. It was long a go and it might be in the book that compiles back issues of The RVators.
You will need a GS/LOC/VOR/MB.
This is a pretty cool product:
http://valavionics.com/valavionicscgi/store/VALstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=VAL_INS_422
Do you need two VOR's for and intersection? No but if that is they only way to ID it you need to do some fast switching or get a radar fix.
(I am ignoring IFR GPS and assuming a check ride scenario and a VFR GPS would not be allowed, even though it is a good tool for situational awareness, even IFR. Obviously the full meal deal Garmin 430/480/530 would be wonderful. If you have a panel mounted VFR GPS you might get away with leaving it on and having it give you continuous dist/track to a way point in an terminal area for general situational awareness. That is what the old NDB beacon did for you, give you a an arrow pointing to home all the time. With the modern VOR I am sure it will give you auto radial which is nice, but nothing like a GPS map.)
Single COM is OK to but again, that could be busy and tricky to monitor ATIS and ATC by switching back-n-forth. Work load goes way up. The Apollo is SL40 is cool, which allows audio monitoring of two freqs. The SL30 adds the VOR/LOC and GS to the COM 1+1/2 com.
http://www.garmin.com/products/sl30/
http://www.garmin.com/products/sl40/
As far as flight instruments that is in the FAR's.
The experimental EFIS is also another issue. My opinion is (not a FAR's), as long as you at least have the good old Needle/Ball/Airspeed backup you are good to go (electric T&B or TC, mechanical pitot/static airspeed and altimeter). There's no back-up is mandated for EFIS in GA planes, but common sense rules here. Of course an independent autopilot from the EFIS may save your bacon, since people in a stressful situation, not current on partial panel do very poorly, as the accident rate post traditional instrument vacuum failure attest to. The bottom line is the CFII and designee flight examiner need to be comfortable with it.
Good Luck George ATP/CFI/II/MEI
I am a CFII and had an IFR RV-4 at one time. I never took a check ride in a RV or trained anyone for IFR ops in a RV.
I found my RV-4's IFR capability where not utilized much in the 800 hours I flew it. It did not have an autopilot so it was......... I can't say was a handful, but it was not relaxed. To do administrative duties in IMC like getting plates or en-route charts out was not fun, in part the cockpit size and part the plane is not super stable. Its not that it's bad but if you have to let go of the stick for a second and the wing does dip, speed can build quickly. I second the opinion that an autopilot for single pilot Ops is a must have. Most examiners will let you use it for brief periods on a check ride between approaches as I understand it.
As far as NAV equipment, check the archives, but you do not need a NDB. In Van's RVator news letter many years ago there was an article about flying IFR in RV's that was pretty good. It was long a go and it might be in the book that compiles back issues of The RVators.
You will need a GS/LOC/VOR/MB.
This is a pretty cool product:
http://valavionics.com/valavionicscgi/store/VALstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=VAL_INS_422
Do you need two VOR's for and intersection? No but if that is they only way to ID it you need to do some fast switching or get a radar fix.
(I am ignoring IFR GPS and assuming a check ride scenario and a VFR GPS would not be allowed, even though it is a good tool for situational awareness, even IFR. Obviously the full meal deal Garmin 430/480/530 would be wonderful. If you have a panel mounted VFR GPS you might get away with leaving it on and having it give you continuous dist/track to a way point in an terminal area for general situational awareness. That is what the old NDB beacon did for you, give you a an arrow pointing to home all the time. With the modern VOR I am sure it will give you auto radial which is nice, but nothing like a GPS map.)
Single COM is OK to but again, that could be busy and tricky to monitor ATIS and ATC by switching back-n-forth. Work load goes way up. The Apollo is SL40 is cool, which allows audio monitoring of two freqs. The SL30 adds the VOR/LOC and GS to the COM 1+1/2 com.
http://www.garmin.com/products/sl30/
http://www.garmin.com/products/sl40/
As far as flight instruments that is in the FAR's.
The experimental EFIS is also another issue. My opinion is (not a FAR's), as long as you at least have the good old Needle/Ball/Airspeed backup you are good to go (electric T&B or TC, mechanical pitot/static airspeed and altimeter). There's no back-up is mandated for EFIS in GA planes, but common sense rules here. Of course an independent autopilot from the EFIS may save your bacon, since people in a stressful situation, not current on partial panel do very poorly, as the accident rate post traditional instrument vacuum failure attest to. The bottom line is the CFII and designee flight examiner need to be comfortable with it.
Good Luck George ATP/CFI/II/MEI
Last edited:
Ifr
Before the Trutrak days, I used to have to slow down the RV6 in the soup to about 135 to 145 MPH. At 185MPH it was very easy for the airplane to fly me instead of the other way around. I found that once I was in IMC for 10 to 15 minutes I could increase the speed, I think the mind gets used to it.
Remember that if you are behind the airplane slow down, and we you have a chance let ATC know of your new speed.
Before the Trutrak days, I used to have to slow down the RV6 in the soup to about 135 to 145 MPH. At 185MPH it was very easy for the airplane to fly me instead of the other way around. I found that once I was in IMC for 10 to 15 minutes I could increase the speed, I think the mind gets used to it.
Remember that if you are behind the airplane slow down, and we you have a chance let ATC know of your new speed.
dan
Well Known Member
Well put.
That's about the best way I've heard "RV in the soup without an autopilot" summed up yet. Well put. Not difficult, just not relaxed.
After installing an autopilot in my RV-7, flying in IMC is still not relaxed by any stretch, but it's definitely a LOT easier!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (804 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
gmcjetpilot said:
That's about the best way I've heard "RV in the soup without an autopilot" summed up yet. Well put. Not difficult, just not relaxed.
After installing an autopilot in my RV-7, flying in IMC is still not relaxed by any stretch, but it's definitely a LOT easier!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (804 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
rvatornate
Active Member
Someone had asked about my setup for IFR. Dynon D-10, backed up with A/S, ALT, VSI. S-Tec-30 autopilot/TC. Sandel 3308 EHSI. MX-20, GX-60, SL-30. I use a anywheremap as back up and for airborne weather information. I agree with those that state the autopilot is a near must for IFR work. The RV9 is easy enough to fly in the soup, right up to the point that you need to change charts, frequencies, fuel tanks, and the XM radio station all at the same time....remember, Murphys law works with IFR flying, I can guarantee you at some point you will wish you had the autopilot. I tend to let the autopilot fly the enroute portion of an IFR flight leaving me fresh for the approach, which I tend to hand fly. But if something comes up in the terminal area that requires more than just a little of my attention, I let "George" handle the airplane. The FAA has changed its emphasis on the autopilot, and during my flight test the examiner required me to demonstrate that I knew how to make the most of my auto-pilot. If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9E 448 hours
Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9E 448 hours
