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  #1  
Old 12-18-2014, 06:16 PM
Peterk Peterk is offline
 
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Default ADSB for homebuilts?

After reading the recent ADSB group buy discussion I was very interested and began to think seriously about the financial investment. Today I read J. Mac McClellan's article on current FAA rules concerning ADSB. He is under the impression that experimentals are still out in the cold because of the TYPE requirement. We have no TYPE. He is recommending that we (the experimental community) hold off until the issue is settled.

Thoughts?

This is Mac's quotation:
Under its number one priority to keep ADS-B rules strict the FAA apparently forgot about homebuilts and other experimental airplanes. The rules require an STC (supplemental TYPE certificate) or TC (TYPE certificate). I capitalized type because thatís what is missing in an experimental. By its very existence an experimental aircraft has no type certificate. Itís a one-off, no matter if homebuilt, prototype, exhibition or developmental.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2014, 08:36 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is online now
 
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Here's a link to Mac's blog:

http://macsblog.com/2014/12/can-you-...now-maybe-not/

Personally, I suspect he's conjuring up obstacles which do not exist, which fits into my belief that he's out of his depth any time he talks EAB.

Anyone in the industry want to comment (Paging Stein...)?
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2014, 08:39 PM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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My thoughts... I'm not sure you really wanna take that position with the feds, they could easily come back and require a "Field Approval" for every aircraft make and model like is currently required on certified aircraft that are not covered by an STC (every experimental is a different make so every one would required a seperate approval), trust me you don't want to go down that road

The approval guidelines are covered in AC 20-165A, the reg is pretty clear:

§91.225 Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Out equipment and use.
(a) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in Class A airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that—

(1) Meets the requirements in TSO-C166b, Extended Squitter Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) and Traffic Information Service-Broadcast (TIS-B) Equipment Operating on the Radio Frequency of 1090 Megahertz (MHz); and

(2) Meets the requirements of §91.227.

(b) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft below 18,000 feet MSL and in airspace described in paragraph (d) of this section unless the aircraft has equipment installed that—

(1) Meets the requirements in—

(i) TSO-C166b; or

(ii) TSO-C154c, Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Equipment Operating on the Frequency of 978 MHz;

(2) Meets the requirements of §91.227.
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Last edited by Walt : 12-18-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2014, 08:50 PM
Peterk Peterk is offline
 
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Doesn't it seem bizarre that the EAA would publish at article, written by an EAA employee, that confidently announces experimental aircraft are not allowed to install ADSB equipment?????
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2014, 09:40 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Well, I'm not taking mine out, and so far the FAA seems perfectly fine with it, even providing a performance report for my aircraft.

I concur that it seems it's an attempt to gin up a controversy where none exists.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2014, 10:00 PM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Default An Interesting point about EAB and ADSB

Mac's blog brings up some interesting problems with current FAA rules pertaining to installng ADSB systems in out aircraft.

If what he says is true we are in a real conundrum.

http://macsblog.com/2014/12/can-you-...now-maybe-not/
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2014, 10:35 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
My thoughts... I'm not sure you really wanna take that position with the feds, they could easily come back and require a "Field Approval" for every aircraft make and model like is currently required on certified aircraft that are not covered by an STC (every experimental is a different make so every one would required a seperate approval), trust me you don't want to go down that road

The approval guidelines are covered in AC 20-165A, the reg is pretty clear:

ß91.225 Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Out equipment and use.
(a) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in Class A airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed tható

(1) Meets the requirements in TSO-C166b, Extended Squitter Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) and Traffic Information Service-Broadcast (TIS-B) Equipment Operating on the Radio Frequency of 1090 Megahertz (MHz); and

(2) Meets the requirements of ß91.227.

(b) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft below 18,000 feet MSL and in airspace described in paragraph (d) of this section unless the aircraft has equipment installed tható

(1) Meets the requirements inó

(i) TSO-C166b; or

(ii) TSO-C154c, Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Equipment Operating on the Frequency of 978 MHz;

(2) Meets the requirements of ß91.227.
So I don't see this:

Quote:
The rules require an STC (supplemental TYPE certificate) or TC (TYPE certificate).
anwhere in there. Additionally, the AC has a clause that specifically states it is NOT mandatory.

More from the blog:

Quote:
Some builders are installing ADS-B equipment that is potentially certifiable and believe they have met the rule. But they havenít. The rule requires flight manual supplements, operating restrictions, a performance test and other approved paperwork and there is no way for a builder to get there.
If he's citing the AC as a "rule" for this analysis, then see the above statement where the AC itself says it is not mandatory.

The "rule" is the FAR as cited above, not the AC.


I think his position that you can't install an ADS-B receiver on an EAB is hogwash.

Last edited by RV7A Flyer : 12-18-2014 at 10:41 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2014, 11:05 PM
ArlingtonRV ArlingtonRV is offline
 
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Default What am I missing?

How is this any different from any other piece of equipment we install? I don't need an STC or 337 for a new radio or GPS, why would I need one for this?
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2014, 06:19 AM
esco esco is offline
 
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Default "ADS-B is bad" perspective

I'm frankly skeptical about the completeness of this story.

I first noticed when Mr. McClellan came to the"Sport Aviation" masthead, and have since monitored"AOPA Pilot" as well;"ADS-B = bad" is a drumbeat.

Whether cast as too expensive, not fully implemented, not usable for most, or not useful, the message consistently focuses on the negative, rather than the positive aspects of implementation.
"If you have a homebuilt or LSA what can you do? The only sensible answer is to wait on the FAA. If you buy and install equipment that you think can be approved in the future you may guess wrong. If you have an airplane delivered from the factory with a fully integrated avionics system youíre stuck waiting, too. So the mixed message from the FAA is the standard hurry up and wait..."
Rather than "wait on the FAA" I enjoy the benefits of my ADS-B (in) today:
in flight weather!
METAR's beyond radio range!
traffic I never saw before (even if an incomplete picture)

I also continue my plan for an integrated -in and -out system for the future.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2014, 06:20 AM
wilddog wilddog is offline
 
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Just read the article, WOW! the FAA has really messed up.
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