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MANUAL FLAPS FOR 6 7 AND 9

G

gasman

Well Known Member
Friend
MANUAL FLAPS FOR 6 & 7

If you are interested in converting to manual flaps,drop a note here. If ther is enough interest, I will draw up a conversion using your existing weldment used for electric flaps and get them to you. Motor dog house is gone between the seats. And all of the reliability problems are gone. BUT you do need BUTT space between the seats. You will always know where your flaps are set. You will never have to turn on the master to lower or retract the flaps...... let me know.
 
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I'm interested as well, but I'm already designing my own...I'd like to see or hear your ideas though! :cool:
 
gasman said:
If you are interested in converting to manual flaps,drop a note here. If ther is enough interest, I will draw up my conversion using your existing weldment used for electric flaps and get them to you. Motor dog house is gone between the seats. And all of the reliability problems are gone. BUT you do need BUTT space between the seats. You will always know where your flaps are set. You will never have to turn on the master to lower or retract the flaps...... let me know.
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Count me in.


P Laurence
 
You will never have to turn on the master to lower or retract the flaps
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Just as a datapoint, the electric flaps can be wired directly to the battery via a fused lead. That is the way mine are wired and it is very handy to be able to activate the flaps without the master turned on.

Guess that just eliminated one rational for manual flaps....... ;)
 
Yes sir!

lighter, less complexity and less points of failure

Can't beat that with a stick!
 
lighter, less complexity and less points of failure

Can't beat that with a stick!
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I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, manual flaps are somewhat of a hassle to use in an RV. I had manual flaps in my RV-6 for a couple of years, but after converting to electric flaps five years ago, I definitely have no desire to go back to manual.

As the original poster stated, you have to have "butt" space between the pilot and passenger in order to use manual flaps (if either pilot and passenger are near 200lbs there isn't much.....and if both are bubba-sized, there ain't any!). And those pilots who have only used manual flaps in a Cherokee are going to be surprised at the amount of grunt it takes (and how your elbow ends up in the side of your passenger) to pull the final notch of flaps manually in an RV.

But...to each his own. I just can't think of any good reason to convert my plane back to manual (would mean ditching the cupholders between the seats :) ). Besides, if the flap motor fails, there is no reason why a landing should be compromised.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, manual flaps are somewhat of a hassle to use in an RV. I had manual flaps in my RV-6 for a couple of years, but after converting to electric flaps five years ago, I definitely have no desire to go back to manual.

---------- snip ---------

But...to each his own. I just can't think of any good reason to convert my plane back to manual (would mean ditching the cupholders between the seats :) ). Besides, if the flap motor fails, there is no reason why a landing should be compromised.
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I have always had MANUAL flaps in my RV-6. (Flying 1,986 hours since Sept 1997.) Forget about putting down full flaps (44 degrees) at any speed above 70 KIAS. It takes TWO hands. I can get full flaps at 70 KIAS or less. I have had a female in the left seat and she could not get more than 3/4 flaps (30 degrees) at ANY air speed. Yes the female was smaller :) than George's sister :(. (see photo in another post by George)

As Sam says, "to each his own".
 
manual flaps

First notch is easy at flap speed. Second notch on base at 85 MPH or less, no problem with one hand. When you convert the electric flap weldment, you actually get better leverage that the original manual flap bar. You can change your elec. flaps to manual, and change them back to elec. in just a few hours after you make the parts.
The satisfaction of pulling a notch of flaps during my landing pattern is always something I look forward to. How exciting is it to hold down a switch and watch a flap position indiactor. And if the 2 seconds of "CHEEK LIFT" is too much for my passenger, then they can just get out and walk. PLUS now I can reach behind the passenger seat for?????

This is not a Which one is better thread. It is just a WHAT DO YOU WANT!
and having the option.
 
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gasman said:
First notch is easy at flap speed. Second notch on base at 85 MPH or less, no problem with one hand.
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I'd prefer manual flaps for my 9A, but I'm concerned they won't extend as easily as you say because the flaps are so large on a 9/9A. If the force required to operate the flaps is similar to a Cherokee, I think manual flaps would be a great option.
 
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9 flap too big??

rv9builder said:
I'd prefer manual flaps for my 9A, but I'm concerned they won't extend as easily as you say because the flaps are so large on a 9/9A. If the force required to operate the flaps is similar to a Cherokee, I think manual flaps would be a great option.
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Mark,
You might be correct about that. What is the area of the flap? And is the flap motor between the seats like the 6 & 7? The manual conversion uses most all of Van's parts that were used on the 6. But by using the weldment that came with your flap kit, you will get better leverage than the first manual flaps. You can switch between manual or elec. flaps in just an hour after you have the parts built. It takes only three bolts, and change the links to longer ones, and your done. AFTER YOU BUILD THE PARTS!!!

Ken K. at Van's would be able to answer that question for you. By the way, a few years back at GOLDEN WEST FLY-IN, Ken had the flap motor from the 7 that he arrived in (no flap landing) all opened up. The brushes were worn, and did not extend, so the motor just quit. It was fixed on the spot and we used a small socket to hold the brushes in place during the installation of the case. It's nice to have the option.

Warren
 
Not sure about the relative area of the flaps, but if the area is the same, the -9 should be less load as the "arm of the chord" is shorter.
 
gasman said:
Mark,
You might be correct about that. What is the area of the flap? And is the flap motor between the seats like the 6 & 7?

Warren
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Warren,

The 9/9A has the flap motor between the seats and uses the same motor and flap actuator weldment as the 6 & 7.
 
Can't you just order the parts from Van's

Can't you just order the old manual flap parts from Van's? I would think the old RV-6 parts could be stuffed in a 7 but since I have never built a 7 I'm just guessing.
 
I'm all about doing what you want, but I've never seen electric flaps inadvertently retracted abruptly ending up causing the plane to sink into the runway. Seen it done several times in planes with manual flaps. Just a point to consider.

2 cents
 
zilik said:
Can't you just order the old manual flap parts from Van's? I would think the old RV-6 parts could be stuffed in a 7 but since I have never built a 7 I'm just guessing.
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Yes, all of the parts you will need will come from Vans. It is all about how to alter them to work better, and also to use with your existing elec flap weldment. It has a better leverage advantage than the orig part.

Warren
 
gasman said:
Yes, all of the parts you will need will come from Vans. It is all about how to alter them to work better, and also to use with your existing elec flap weldment. It has a better leverage advantage than the orig part.

Warren
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Warren,

I have (had) both weldments, and the only difference between the two is the length of the aft arms (well, that, and the forward arm being different to connect to the motor vs. your hand). The manual weldment aft arms being just over an inch longer. Is this what you are referring to for mechanical advantage?
 
cjensen said:
Warren,

I have (had) both weldments, and the only difference between the two is the length of the aft arms (well, that, and the forward arm being different to connect to the motor vs. your hand). The manual weldment aft arms being just over an inch longer. Is this what you are referring to for mechanical advantage?
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Yes, if all you now have is the manual weldment, i would cut the aft arms down to match the wd-613 EF as per dwg EF 6-1. They are 1 1/2" shorter. Then install the unit on the back side. It is much cleaner and easier to do.
I will have my mods here soon. They will make manual flaps nice if you have the space....... Butt space, remember!

Warrem
 
Low Pass said:
I'm all about doing what you want, but I've never seen electric flaps inadvertently retracted abruptly ending up causing the plane to sink into the runway. Seen it done several times in planes with manual flaps. Just a point to consider.

2 cents
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"In planes with manual flaps" Did you mean RV6's?
If you build flap anchor part# f-658A as per plans, this won't happen. Van made it simple and strong and easy to inspect.

Warren
 
MOONEY had retractable landing gear that was so reliable that the FAA did not require a back-up system.......... THEY WERE MANUAL!!!!
 
gasman said:
"In planes with manual flaps" Did you mean RV6's?
If you build flap anchor part# f-658A as per plans, this won't happen. Van made it simple and strong and easy to inspect.

Warren
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No - Piper. And by inadvertently, I mean the pilot intentionally raised the flaps on a go-around. Ended up dropping the plane to the runway from about 4-5'. Going from 45-deg flaps to 0 in less than a second is a radical change that not everyone can handle.
 
Low Pass said:
No - Piper. And by inadvertently, I mean the pilot intentionally raised the flaps on a go-around. Ended up dropping the plane to the runway from about 4-5'. Going from 45-deg flaps to 0 in less than a second is a radical change that not everyone can handle.
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If I recall, on a go around you apply full power and keep the nose down and then EASE the flaps off. I would do that in the "6" also. Flying is understanding the equipment.

If you need to apply max brake power, the flaps are gone in one second!!! Five seconds for electric flaps at 50 mph = 367 feet of max stopping power lost.

Warren
 
gasman said:
If I recall, on a go around you apply full power and keep the nose down and then EASE the flaps off. I would do that in the "6" also. Flying is understanding the equipment.

If you need to apply max brake power, the flaps are gone in one second!!! Five seconds for electric flaps at 50 mph = 367 feet of max stopping power lost.

Warren
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Yes. Supposed to. But I have seen people get flustered and retract the flaps too quickly on a go-around. Has happened with me in the right seat as CFI. Happened so fast I couldn't grab the bar. All I could do is grab the yoke and get the nose up as the plane hit the runway.

My original point was to show that it is possible to retract flaps with a manual arrgt very quickly - for better or worse.
 
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