A few RV-12 questions

I may be asking a number of inane questions, but it is because I am convinced that I want to build an RV-12 and being an Engineer I tend to over analyze things before I make a decision.

Q1: Is my understanding correct that one really does not need to keep a build log for the RV-12 ELSA, since one has to take the 16 hour maintenance course regardless, to be able to do Condition Inspections?

Q2: My unscientific analysis of the last year of RV-12 postings and review of builder's websites that have completed and are flying their planes, seems to show that RV-12 owners tend to fly more hours per year than typical RV owners. Is this true or am I delusional?

Q3: I've reviewed a number of build logs and web sites where the builders have completed their RV-12s in 12-14 months. Is this atypical or reasonable. I have a full time job but can easily put 20 hours per week into the build so by my calculations it seems realistic. I'd like to finish it in time to fly it to Oshkosh 2017.

Q4: Does it make sense to order the empennage and wing kit at the same time?

Thanks.

Gary, I can't answer your first two questions because I built my 12 as an EAB,
and I really don't know if 12 owners fly more than the other model owners. I don't fly my 12 as much as I did my 8, but it was aerobatic and I loved doing some simple maneuvers.

As for your third question about build time, I finished my very basic 12 (No
wheel fairings, lights or paint, in about 800 hours.

With question four, my feeling is that you should just buy the empennage at
first to see if building a plane is really your kind of thing. It's relatively easy build, but building any plane is not something to be taken lightly.

Walt Shipley

RV8, RV8A, RV12

The reason you don't need a builder log is because you will sign an affidavit saying it was built to factory specs and you don't need to prove that you built it. My 12 took about 750 hrs to build without paint, but it was my fourth project and I have a fully equipped shop. Working in cramped quarters with limited tools and no previous building experience could easily add 50% to the build time.

I don't know what others do, but having an RV-12 makes flying much more affordable than my Cherokee, so my flying hours have increased.

1. It depends on how you intend to register the plane, as E-AB YES, as E-LSA NO. Either way, just write the date next to each step as you complete it. That will be your log. Take pictures periodically of you working on various sub kits.

2. Who knows?

3. One year is possible. But tell everyone that it will take 2 years. If you finish early, it will make you look good.

4. The wings go together very quickly and you will be waiting for the next kit. The fuselage will take longer than expected because there are so many parts. Ordering more than one kit at a time will save shipping cost.

garyr78 said:

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Q4: Does it make sense to order the empennage and wing kit at the same time?

Click to expand...

If I were doing it again, I'd order everything except the avionics and engine at the same time. I spent a lot of time waiting for delivery of my next kit. Empennage and wings build very quickly, fuselage & Finish not so much so

Tom, I got a kick out of your build photo album, especially your twiddling thumbs pictures. Really drives home your point about wasting time waiting for kits to arrive.

Gary, Check your private messages.

Get connected

Hey, Gary...there are easily a dozen or more RV-12s flying or being built within an hour's drive of Carlsbad. Mark (rv9builder) is one of the more recent additions. You have all the answers you'll need at your call by hooking up. Contact either Mark or I via PM and we'll get you in the loop.

to answer...

My answers (FWIW) to your specific questions are:

Q1: Not required for ELSA, but for me, why wouldn?t I want to document a project that?s the culmination of a lifelong dream? Nothing real formal, but enough to bind up into a coffee table book after the build is done. Side note?there are FAA inspectors at large who still don?t have the complete picture. Some -12 builders have been asked to produce the standard proof of 51%. Even if I had it to offer, I wouldn?t, so as not to legitimize a demand that?s contrary to the regs.

Q2: Can?t answer that?still building, but some -12 buddies sure enjoy flying theirs, and seem to do so at any excuse.

Q3: The factory published 700 to 900 hours has been well validated.

Q4: Order as many airframe kits as you have storage room to handle them. You?ll need quite a lot of either square footage if you keep the parts in the crates until use, or a lot of shelving if you don?t. Added up side is if you have three or four big crates shipping at one time you might be able to arrange the delivery by Partain?s. That?s the best insurance against having your airplane parts being trashed in a freight dock forklift hockey session.

Thank you John, I sent you and Mark an email.

Pictues

I had a tripod with camera and after each section, would take a picture of me in it and transfer it to my file named RV-12 on my computer. I also transferred the pictures to a hardware stick for backup. You may get a finicky inspector and he can sit at my desk and browse the pictures and the dated completion steps in the builder's manual.

Best,

Q1: Is my understanding correct that one really does not need to keep a build log for the RV-12 ELSA, since one has to take the 16 hour maintenance course regardless, to be able to do Condition Inspections?
Yes!

Q2: My unscientific analysis of the last year of RV-12 postings and review of builder's websites that have completed and are flying their planes, seems to show that RV-12 owners tend to fly more hours per year than typical RV owners. Is this true or am I delusional?
There are many factors why this occurs. Top of the list is average fuel cost are much lower than almost all other planes that are not rotax powered. On average you burn about 4.5 gallons per hour. When in the pattern doing touch and gos this goes down to 3.5 gallon per hour. If you use Premium gas you do the math for your area prices. In my state Premium runs about $2.30 per gallon X 4.5 is $10.30 per hour. So you don't have to worry about emptying the bank every time you go fly after your fixed costs like hangar rent and insurance. Next would be how simple the over all operation of getting it out of the hangar and flying the airplane is. Its almost as simple as getting in your car for a drive once you understand the avionics in the 12.

Q3: I've reviewed a number of build logs and web sites where the builders have completed their RV-12s in 12-14 months. Is this atypical or reasonable. I have a full time job but can easily put 20 hours per week into the build so by my calculations it seems realistic. I'd like to finish it in time to fly it to Oshkosh 2017.
That gold is feasible how ever Life has a way of getting int the way especially if you are married! Two years is a realistic gold for a first time builder.

Q4: Does it make sense to order the empennage and wing kit at the same time?
Building a plane is an adventure and a big commitment. I'm not a big fan of ordering multiple kits at one time mostly because of the cost. Remember what i said about life. Also there is always changes to improve the sub kits over time so you may miss an update if you already have the kit. Just my opinion.

" Life has a way of getting int the way especially if you are married! "

I've spent the last couple months laying wood flooring, having new carpets installed, painting the inside of the house, laying tile in the laundry room, having a new fence installed and will be finishing laying synthetic turf in the backyard in 3 weeks. All honey-dos.

I am thinking that I might be good to go with the RV-12 build without distractions from my wife, at least for 18 months or so.

Do NOT bother with some highly detailed build log unless you just like that stuff. Do this instead. Initial every step in the plans as you complete it. Sign and date every page in the plans when all steps on that page are done. The highly detailed plans become your build log. Take plenty of pics when you are building.

BTW you will have some pages where you put off a step or two. mArk those with sticky notes until you finish the page.

Order the emp, wings, and fuse together. Emp and wing will be done quickly. Fuse will take awhile, then you will need finish kit.

My RV12 took about 950 hours, very meticulous engineer first-time builder. cOuld do another one to same quality in <800 hours.

It's FUN!