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Treat every prop as live!

Extremely good lesson. Everyone take note

I found out I had a bad P lead the scary way. Had tied down my Ercoupe and covered her for the night and was walking around to take one last look. I decided to put the prop in the vertical position to help prevent the birds from pooping all over my pride and joy. As I was turning the blades about 90 degrees the engined fired up just like the video. And I jumped back just like the video. I shutter to think what would have happened to me if that aluminum prop had made contact with my soft body parts that night at my deserted airport. You should treat all props like they have bad P leads.
 
Several years back during a condition inspection, for some forgotten reason I wanted to turn the engine over. It had sat for a week or so, purge valve pulled out, I may have even had the fuel selector in the off postion while cleaning the fuel filter. Turned the key just to get a rotation or so and it fired a couple times. No problem but demonstrated how easily an engine can fire with next to no fuel.
 
Prop troubles

If you have to turn the prop turn backwards. Mags will not fire that way. Always always assume it will fire if you turn it in normal direction. 1 pop from 1 cylinder can be fatal.

Don Broussard

RV-9 Rebuild in Progress

Piper Pacer
 
If you have to turn the prop turn backwards. Mags will not fire that way. Always always assume it will fire if you turn it in normal direction. 1 pop from 1 cylinder can be fatal.

Don Broussard

RV-9 Rebuild in Progress

Piper Pacer

I've heard from a couple gray-beard A&P types that this is verboten on an engine with a vacuum pump, that it can trash the vanes on the pump. Any truth to that?
 
Good advice, but I can't help wonder why he was pulling the prop through in the first place? I know why we do it for radials but I've never seen a checklist for a typical horizontally opposed engine that called for a prop pull through on a pre-flight.
 
Checking the prop blades for dings. But he looks tall enough to be able to run his hand across without pulling the prop.

I've always been taught to leave 'er alone, and it's worked well so far. My old PT6's however... different story!
 
I've heard from a couple gray-beard A&P types that this is verboten on an engine with a vacuum pump, that it can trash the vanes on the pump. Any truth to that?

Not quite grey yet but in 40 years I have never seen a VAC pump problem caused by turning a engine backwards. I believe at one time that some pumps had less than perfect machining during manufacture and could snag a vane on a port and cause problems.


Don Broussard A&P, IA

RV-9 Rebuild in Progress
Piper Pacer
 
This is a good reminder for all of us. From my Lycoming experience, I always worry with the Rotax in the RV-12 when you have to turn the prop over 20 or more times to pump the oil back into the oil tank to check level. I know that power AND both ignition switches must be on for ignition but it still makes me nervous.
 
I found out I had a bad P lead the scary way.

Here in my neck of the woods (western Canada), it seems to be common practice (and I was taught to always do this) to check the mags (at idle, turn mags switch to off for 1/2 second to confirm engine stops firing) prior to every shut down. Further, it is locally believed that this is not common practice in the USA. Is this true, and if so, why?

Bevan
 
BEVIN,
I preach this to every pilot that comes to our shop. I doesn't gaurantee anything, but it helps reduce the chance.
 
This is a good reminder for all of us. From my Lycoming experience, I always worry with the Rotax in the RV-12 when you have to turn the prop over 20 or more times to pump the oil back into the oil tank to check level. I know that power AND both ignition switches must be on for ignition but it still makes me nervous.

Actually with Rotax 912 the Capacitive Discharge Ignition gets its power from separate coil windings. It is not powered by the 12V battery. It is necessary for the engine to spin at least several hundred RPM for sufficient voltage to self-power the CD ignitions. Perfectly safe to turn prop on Rotax 912.
 
PreShutdown Mag Check

I was taught and have always performed this check at the end of every flight, but I do notice that the practice doesn't seem to be prevalent...
 
1.
The Aussie gent involved in video is to be applauded for his courage in writing the article and posting the video. He opened himself up to a lot of less than complimentary comment in other forums (thankfully not in this one).
The reason he got caught is detailed in the written article.

2.
Actually with Rotax 912 the Capacitive Discharge Ignition gets its power from separate coil windings. It is not powered by the 12V battery. It is necessary for the engine to spin at least several hundred RPM for sufficient voltage to self-power the CD ignitions. Perfectly safe to turn prop on Rotax 912.

I'm sure this has been posted before, but there is a video of hand propping a Rotax. Not easy to start but it can be.

https://youtu.be/-JUBrHYsh4E
 
For those who turn the prop backwards, definitely DO NOT do his on a Rotax. A 1/4 turn backwards and you're supposed to an oil pressure purge to prevent deflating the lifters. NEVER turn a Rotax backwards.
 
My engine prop combo came from a Mooney that got its tail eaten by a runaway hand propped Cessna last year......scary!
 
Live Prop/mag

I had this happen to me!
I had a Decathlon that would occasionally have a valve stick on the first take off of the day. So I thought I would check the engine by turning it over,while cold in the hangar, to see If I could locate the abhorrent valve. My back was up against the door I had verified the mag switches were off.

I got ready to turn the prop and thought: if I have a bad P lead/hot mag this would be a very bad place to be,with the prop arch only a few inches from my legs with my back touching the hangar door behind me, should the engine start I'd be in real trouble.

I went to the other hanger and found a set of good chocks and chocked the plane. I then got in front of the plane and pulled the blade through.. it started on the the first slow pull!!! Just like the one in the video, it only ran a few seconds. I had already shimmied out side ways before it quit.

If I had not chocked it? How long would it have been before I got help?

Nearly 30 years later I still have great respect for props.
 
Good time for a reminder. Live props happen for several reasons, not the least of which is p-leads left to flop about while hanging from their crimped terminal ends. Eventually they disconnect themselves.

Secure those p-leads. If you're flying Slicks, all it takes is an adel clamp on the ground screw:



While on the subject of bad mag wiring...I once saw a live prop nearly bite a few friends standing in a group around a prop. The cause was the loss of the p-lead ground path. Some knothead had grounded the p-lead at the switch end, which meant the poor little electrons had to find their way home through the airframe rather than through the p-lead shield. There are many more joints (thus places to corrode and/or break) when grounding through the airframe, as compared to two connections total (switch and mag) for a shield ground.
 
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I was sitting in a champ (no electrics) getting ready for a hand start for some ski flying. We were at the priming stage where the flipper yells "switches off" and pulls it through - even more important in winter. The mag switch (old lever type) is behind the front seat and the sun was low and in my eyes. I did not have the switch all the way off - I thought it was, but I only fly that plane once or twice a year and I got it wrong - one mag was live. The flipper was demonstrating hand propping to another guy, who was quite nervous. He said, as he turned it through, "always assume it is live, even if the switches are o...." the words weren't out of his mouth when it fired and started. He looked at me like "you @#$%@#$%". And then, in a panic I did the dumbest thing ever - I shut it off! I have no idea why. I should have kept it running because that was the whole objective of the exercise and also I would not have been able to hear him cussing me out. I tried to pass it off as just giving the new guy a demonstration of why to treat the prop as live, but that did not get me very far. I paid for that for many weeks and rightly so. I screwed the pooch on that one and it could have been deadly.

At least when hand propping, people are aware of what is going on and are usually trained and the airplane is chocked, or there is a guy in the cockpit. Even then it has sometimes gone wrong. But when doing maintenance or pre-flight, people are totally not expecting ignition and the airplane is not secure, there could be stuff or people in front of it and what follows is usually really really bad. So be careful out there. Mag check at shutdown certainly can't hurt.
 
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Several years ago, a couple friends of mine went to look at a Chief one of them was wanting to buy. The plane was in a hanger full of planes with it's doors locked. While waiting for the owner to arrive, they looked in the plane windows, saw that the mag switch was off, and decided to turn over the prop to check to relative compression of the motor. They got the surprise of their life when the motor cranked. They had to hold the plane for quite a while till the owner arrived. They were very lucky that no one got hurt or plane got damaged. The owner was not a happy camper when he arrived. Stuff happens so don't play around with a prop.
Allen Blackwell
Very slow build RV7A
 
Another story, from personal experience.

Several years ago I tying to isolate an intermittent performance problem on my 8. After a flight with the engine very warm I pulled the prop thru to feel the compression and it spun thru 5 or so blades. Got my attention.

No hot mag, just a HOT engine.

George Meketa
 
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