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Flying Tips For New RV Pilots

N941WR

Legacy Member
Please add your favorite tips for new RV pilots and indicate which model they apply to.

Hold the stick at the top and when building, do not shorten the stick. (Some time back Van wrote an article on this.)
I was flying with a new RV pilot and he was grossly over controlling the plane. When I looked over his hand was on the bottom of the stick, just above his legs. When I suggested he hold the stick at the top, the over controlling stopped immediately.

When on downwind, bisect the runway with your left wing tip. This gives you good spacing and works out well for pattern size.

If you fly a Taildragger and are struggling getting the flair height correct, work on wheel landings and move to three point landings later.
 
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Bill:

I have one of Van's wooden grips atop the c.c. in my RV-7A. I had to cut the c.c. sufficiently so that the top of the grip would clear the bottom of the instrument panel.

The resultant c.c. is probably the height of the original unfinished stick. However, I do notice that I could probably shave another inch or two (which I won't do) as I find I'm holding it with thumb and a couple of fingers about halfway down the wooden grip, both during normal flight and formation flying.

Good thread...
 
Bill:

I have one of Van's wooden grips atop the c.c. in my RV-7A. I had to cut the c.c. sufficiently so that the top of the grip would clear the bottom of the instrument panel.

The resultant c.c. is probably the height of the original unfinished stick. However, I do notice that I could probably shave another inch or two (which I won't do) as I find I'm holding it with thumb and a couple of fingers about halfway down the wooden grip, both during normal flight and formation flying.

Good thread...
You did exactly what I did by cutting the stick down so it's overall length remained the same after the grip was installed.

You may find that after all the controls are connected that your stick's forward travel will be limited and you won't hit the panel.
 
RV-9(A) pattern speeds

This applies to the RV-9(A) with a fixed pitch prop only. Other models and configurations will be different.

The -9 with its amazing airfoil, high aspect ratio wing, and slotted flaps has a stunning low stall speed and with a fixed pitch prop, it will pick up speed quickly, if you point the nose down.

With almost 1,000 hours in the -9, I found that when landing it works best if you put in ALL the flaps abeam your touchdown point and trim the plane for 60 knots when heavy (55knots when light) and fly the entire pattern at that speed.

This is different than the typical 10?/10?/10? deployment on each leg of the pattern most of us were taught.

It helps you make a stabilized approach and you aren't constantly fiddling with the trim and chasing your desired speed.

I do this regardless of the crosswind component and it has worked out well for me. With the -8(A) you are still well above the stall at those speeds, if your ASI is calibrated correctly.
 
Magic Yaw Damper - all models

I like to use this trick on final in bumpy conditions but it works well in cruise when your passenger(s) are turning green.

The result is that your plane will stop rocking and smooth right out.

Pump you feet back and forth ever so slightly, not even a quarter of an inch. You can do this while slipping on final but remember, you will have your pedals offset due to the cross control input required for any crosswind you are dealing with.
 
Don't over trim

I took Gary Sobek's advice and stopped throwing all the nose up trim I have at it and my wheel landings improved a lot. Gotta hold just a little back stick to keep the speed down on final. Once the wheels touch I just relax it a little and I'm rolling. It's easier than getting just the right timing and amount of push to pin the wheels.

I've got constant speed and I like to fly the pattern close and stay high on final. I don't go full flaps til late in the game. I'd rather slip than have to add power.

Get enough seat cushion and make yourself stretch to sit up high on final. The better you can see the runway, the better your judgement of height above it.

Ed Holyoke
RV-6
 
landing an RV

I've been flying my 7A for 6 years now. I had a cessna 152 for ten years before this and my landings most always consisted of some kind of a bounce or at least a drop to the runway. Once in a blue moon I would eek out a landing a line captain would be proud of.... a perfect squeaker! From the first flight in the RV I could tell things were going to be different. Beyond the obvious reasons, low wing versus high wing, I don't know why but it's incredibly easy to land an RV. More often than not I can squeak it on. Feels good! During transition training which was done in a 6A, I was told to use 80 knots as the approach speed then easing back on final knocking off another few knots. Works well. I usually cross the threshold at about 70 knots. It floats a little but gives me time to ease the nose up for a nice smooth touchdown. I also practice what Bill R. stated above about putting in flaps when abeam the numbers. I don't mess with them again. I use 20 degrees all the way down. By the time I'm turning base, I'm trimmed and have nothing to do other than concentrate on the traffic/birds/radio calls and landing. Works well.
 
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This applies to the RV-9(A) with a fixed pitch prop only. Other models and configurations will be different.

The -9 with its amazing airfoil, high aspect ratio wing, and slotted flaps has a stunning low stall speed and with a fixed pitch prop, it will pick up speed quickly, if you point the nose down.

With almost 1,000 hours in the -9, I found that when landing it works best if you put in ALL the flaps abeam your touchdown point and trim the plane for 60 knots when heavy (55knots when light) and fly the entire pattern at that speed.

And just for reference, if I use Bill's numbers in my C/S -9, just as I descend below the tree line, I'll be coming down like a ton of bricks in what would not be considered a landing, but a very positive "arrival". (Runway surrounded by trees and houses causes ... with the slightest breeze)
 
And just for reference, if I use Bill's numbers in my C/S -9, just as I descend below the tree line, I'll be coming down like a ton of bricks in what would not be considered a landing, but a very positive "arrival". (Runway surrounded by trees and houses causes ... with the slightest breeze)

Agreed. With the constant speed Whirlwind, I like to drop one notch of flaps at 90 knots on downwind, another at 75 knots turning base, and don't run full flaps until short final, crossing the fence at high 60's at a pretty healthy down angle. With the constant speed prop and full flaps, the 9A will bleed energy like nobodies business with power all the way off. For that reason I usually arrive at about 3' altitude with 15 knots above stall and let it bleed off and settle in. I rarely use 1000' of runway.

Usually I'm full power off at mid-base leg, with lots of altitude to burn and let the flaps/prop dissipate the extra energy. It's hard to have an engine failure screw up your approach if you don't need the engine for the approach in the first place.
 
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RV9A, 0-320, FP Catto-----80 downwind, first 'notch' of flaps,70 on base, flaps 2, 60 on final flaps 3, reduce power to idle, then 55kts over threshold, flare and wait---works for me. I trim for 500 fpm descent when abeam touchdown point.
 
I've been flying my 7A for 6 years now. I had a cessna 152 for ten years before this and my landings most always consisted of some kind of a bounce or at least a drop to the runway. Once in a blue moon I would eek out a landing a line captain would be proud of.... a perfect squeaker! From the first flight in the RV I could tell things were going to be different. Beyond the obvious reasons, low wing versus high wing, I don't know why but it's incredibly easy to land an RV. More often than not I can squeak it on. Feels good! During transition training which was done in a 6A, I was told to use 80 knots as the approach speed then easing back on final knocking off another few knots. Works well. I usually cross the threshold at about 70 knots. It floats a little but gives me time to ease the nose up for a nice smooth touchdown. I also practice what Bill R. stated above about putting in flaps when abeam the numbers. I don't mess with them again. By the time I'm turning base, I'm trimmed and have nothing to do other than concentrate on the traffic/birds/radio calls and landing. Works well.

Almost exactly my story and technique except I have much less experience. Even though I was never happy with my 152 landings, when I started paying the extra rental $$'s for 172's my landings got much better. I was never sure why and at times had thought about renting a 152 just to see if it was that my skills had improved or it was something with the 152 that I never got right.

Now with a 7A my landings are so much better that it must be something with the plane since the pilot is the same :D Oh - certainly some/most/all(?) credit goes to the CFI that transitioned me :)

I should probably reword that last sentence.
 
With almost 1,000 hours in the -9, I found that when landing it works best if you put in ALL the flaps abeam your touchdown point and trim the plane for 60 knots when heavy (55knots when light) and fly the entire pattern at that speed.

This is different than the typical 10?/10?/10? deployment on each leg of the pattern most of us were taught.
If I were to fly a 60kt circuit i'd have the tower asking me to speed up to accommodate the Cessna traffic behind me... :)

With manual flap, I find that it's not practical to apply all the flap at once on downwind... The pull on the bar requires too much force to maintain smooth level flight with the other hand. So 1st notch at VFE, 2nd notch on base, and 3rd notch turning final... Each point is ~10kts slower so the forces are reduced. For those with electric flaps, those flap motors must really be working to get everything out all at once even if the pilot never feels it... it would be easier on the airplane to extend in stages.

The exception to this is on a formation arrival, after a break the airspeed is low enough that pulling all flap as I roll wings level on downwind is do-able.
 
If I were to fly a 60kt circuit i'd have the tower asking me to speed up to accommodate the Cessna traffic behind me... :)

With manual flap, I find that it's not practical to apply all the flap at once on downwind... The pull on the bar requires too much force to maintain smooth level flight with the other hand. So 1st notch at VFE, 2nd notch on base, and 3rd notch turning final... Each point is ~10kts slower so the forces are reduced. For those with electric flaps, those flap motors must really be working to get everything out all at once even if the pilot never feels it... it would be easier on the airplane to extend in stages.

The exception to this is on a formation arrival, after a break the airspeed is low enough that pulling all flap as I roll wings level on downwind is do-able.

Which model?
 
I cut my stick for panel clearance, plus a little but fly with my arm rested on my left leg and fly with fingertips at the bottom of the Infinity grip. Takeoffs and landings are full grip.

Anyone I take up and let fly over-controls until I have them rest their arm and fly by fingertips.

I rarely need to touch the trim in my -7A with the light controls. The Dynon AP with button panel takes care of in-flight trim.
 
Keeping with the topic ?tips for new RV pilots?.
Relax.
Keep things simple.
Get training from a qualified, experienced, professional known for RV?s if you?re struggling.

A relaxed grip using small muscles will yield better control and less overcontrol. Sounds simple but we are ?human animals? and naturally tense up under stress. Talk to yourself; ?breath, relax, wiggle feet...? . It takes very little strength to command control of an RV.

Keep it simple. Mike Seager teaches half flaps abeam, full flaps base. As you gain skill and confidence, you can amend your technique. If your field or conditions require more finesse, get some training or practice in a more forgiving environment.

Know your limits. Test them safely to gain more skill. Get qualified training if you?re struggling.

There are a lot of fine comments posted here, but I think the intent of the thread is to help new RV pilots, not too discuss the thousands of variants in how to fly an RV. A beginning golfer, to keep it simple, takes the same club to hit a given yardage. A good golfer can hit several different clubs depending on the shot they want to hit for that same yardage. Keep it simple.
 
treat every landing as if it was a go around so that you are ready if you actually have to go around.
If you have trouble with bouncing, try levelling off over the runway and trying NOT to let the wheels touch for as long as possible. This will help you to get an idea of what your correct flair speed really should be. Try it with different weights and remember that temperature makes a huge difference.
 
stick length

Hold the stick at the top and when building, do not shorten the stick.

Maybe stick length is the new primer... "Cut the stick" is advice I give to every builder I talk to. I can't stand flying other RV's with the long stick. With my hand on the grip for takeoff and landing, I feel like my arm is floating in space so it's harder to make fine adjustments. My stick is cut down so that with my hand on the grip, my forearm is resting on my thigh. Because of that, I can make tiny corrections with my wrist (small muscles). I'm interested to see what Van said about it. Anybody have that article?
 
Maybe stick length is the new primer... "Cut the stick" is advice I give to every builder I talk to. I can't stand flying other RV's with the long stick. With my hand on the grip for takeoff and landing, I feel like my arm is floating in space so it's harder to make fine adjustments. My stick is cut down so that with my hand on the grip, my forearm is resting on my thigh. Because of that, I can make tiny corrections with my wrist (small muscles). I'm interested to see what Van said about it. Anybody have that article?

"Don't cut the stick until you are sure you have absolutely zero interest in aerobatics" is what I tell all builders.
 
fly the airplane with needle, ball, airspeed. Get good in the pattern. By 300 ft AGL you should be stabilized.

Add all the glass capabilities incrementally. Take someone with you to watch for traffic when your learning a new auto pilot, GPS, or screen.

If you have a desire to learn aerobatics consider a school with something like a super decathlon. Than transition to your RV. Do not teach yourself acro in your RV.
 
treat every landing as if it was a go around so that you are ready if you actually have to go around.
If you have trouble with bouncing, try levelling off over the runway and trying NOT to let the wheels touch for as long as possible. This will help you to get an idea of what your correct flair speed really should be. Try it with different weights and remember that temperature makes a huge difference.

Why does temperature make a huge difference? Huge difference in what?
 
This applies to the RV-9(A) with a fixed pitch prop only. Other models and configurations will be different.

The -9 with its amazing airfoil, high aspect ratio wing, and slotted flaps has a stunning low stall speed and with a fixed pitch prop, it will pick up speed quickly, if you point the nose down.

With almost 1,000 hours in the -9, I found that when landing it works best if you put in ALL the flaps abeam your touchdown point and trim the plane for 60 knots when heavy (55knots when light) and fly the entire pattern at that speed.

This is different than the typical 10?/10?/10? deployment on each leg of the pattern most of us were taught.

It helps you make a stabilized approach and you aren't constantly fiddling with the trim and chasing your desired speed.

I do this regardless of the crosswind component and it has worked out well for me. With the -8(A) you are still well above the stall at those speeds, if your ASI is calibrated correctly.

I'm not disagreeing with this by any means, but please take note of the First line and don't do this in a -6 ,-7 or -8 if you are a low time RV pilot and especially if you are a low time pilot. The wings on a -9 have different lift characteristics and you will be fairly close to stall at 55 knots in a -7 if you are at that speed in the pattern. If you are comfortable with your skills/plane and need to land short, then by all means slow it down and keep coordinated. But If you are new and reading this for additional techniques, please make sure that you are not using these speeds in anything other than a -9 before you are very comfortable in your plane. We don't want any more stalls spins from Base to Final because someone read this and went out and flew their -7 at 55knots which is very close to stall speed for a lot of -7s (mine is 50). Use the 1.3 x VS rule if nothing else.
 
Appendix C, Transition Training Manual

Appendix C is 10 pages of RV-specific flying tips designed to cover the normal span of operation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1heUX0aynnoJtlimDwi-s578tGBO0o15I/view?usp=sharing. Other parts of the document go into extensive detail for anyone interested in drilling down deeper into tips for new RV pilots. Updates are maintained in a sticky at the top of this page.

As an instructor or flight advisor, I always caution transitioning RV'ers or folks starting Phase 1 that any discussion involving airspeed can be apples and oranges. Each airplane (even the same type with a similar power plant/propeller combination) is unique; and unless proper testing was conducted and CALIBRATED airspeed is used for discussion, airspeed numbers from one airplane do not necessarily translate to another. Even when discussing CAS, it's also necessary to define the G, gross weight, center of gravity and density altitude to actually compare numbers. Interestingly, AOA is the same for each type and those numbers translate directly, if calibrated AOA information is available to the pilot. For example, ONSPEED or L/Dmax AOA is the same for any RV-8 and doesn't change with density altitude, gross weight, or G load (bank angle). This is why calibrated AOA can be such a useful energy reference for the pilot, especially in an EAB type where detailed flight test information may not be available.

As for stick geometry, keep in mind the airplanes were designed with an acceptable longitudinal stick force gradient (this is the amount of pull in pounds required per G). A short stick produces a higher longitudinal stick force gradient (i.e., you have to pull harder per G). So if you compare two airplanes that have different stick lengths (and, perhaps, some variation in rigging to include horizontal stab incidence and elevator throw) you've got more apples and oranges when you offer advice...My four has a longitudinal stick force gradient of 8-9 lbs/G which is quite a bit of "straight elbow torque" required even at 4 G's (typical maneuvering load for an aerobatic RV-type).

Cheers,

Vac
 
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I read through Vac's work and enjoyed using many parts of his syllabus.

I'll add that for those not super current on tail wheel, I've found a minimum of 10 hours and 60 laps to become proficient at wheel landings, crosswinds, and 3 points (3 points not being my favorite) in RVs.

Check out Nov Kitplanes. One article on groundloopoing an 8 and another on takeoff / landing incidents dominating "rut rohs".
 
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This is really good advice

This also applies to my -9A with a CS prop, with the caveat that I usually leave a little power in. I get it slowed down abeam the numbers, and get all the flaps in right there. Once all the flaps are in, you can just drive it around base and final at 65 knots or so.

The -9A is even easier to land than my Warrior was, and that's saying something. I like easy. :)

This applies to the RV-9(A) with a fixed pitch prop only. Other models and configurations will be different.

The -9 with its amazing airfoil, high aspect ratio wing, and slotted flaps has a stunning low stall speed and with a fixed pitch prop, it will pick up speed quickly, if you point the nose down.

With almost 1,000 hours in the -9, I found that when landing it works best if you put in ALL the flaps abeam your touchdown point and trim the plane for 60 knots when heavy (55knots when light) and fly the entire pattern at that speed.

This is different than the typical 10°/10°/10° deployment on each leg of the pattern most of us were taught.

It helps you make a stabilized approach and you aren't constantly fiddling with the trim and chasing your desired speed.

I do this regardless of the crosswind component and it has worked out well for me. With the -8(A) you are still well above the stall at those speeds, if your ASI is calibrated correctly.
 
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